537 17518 JOURNAL of the PROCEEDINGS and DEBATES in the POLITICAL CLUB, continued from p. 499. I shall now give you a Debate we had in our Club upon the Reduction of 2000 Men, made laft Year in the Number of Seamen employed in the Navy; in which Debate the first that spoke was Afranius Burrhus, the Purport of whofe Speech was as A follows. Mr. Prefident, A C D have any part of their principal paid The produce of the land and malt tax is now fo well known, Sir, that, I believe, I need not inform gentlemen, that the former at 35. in the pound never brings into the Exchequer, clear of all deductions, full 1,500,000l. and the latter seldom, if ever, above 700,000l. therefore we ought to reduce our annual publick expence within 2,200,000l. or, if poffible, within 1,700,000l. In thefe circumftances, I do not doubt but that many gentlemen have been turning their thoughts towards œconomy, and endeavouring to fix upon thofe articles S the motion I am to make is, I know, a little unpopular in this country, I B muft beg leave to give you at full length the reafons that have induced me to think of making it. Economy is at all times as beneficial to a fociety, as it is to a private family, but at prefent, Sir, it will not only be beneficial, but it is abfolutely neceffary for this nation. Under that heavy load of debt, which the expenfive wars we have been engaged in have brought upon us, it is abfolutely neceffary to contract every article of publick expence, as far as is confiftent with our prefent fecurity, and with the prefervation of that tranquillity, which we now fo happily, and I may fay, unexpectedly enjoy. In time of peace, I believe no man will think of adding to the number of our taxes, or of increafing any one of those we are now loaded with; and every one knows, that all our taxes, except the land and malt, are how mortgaged for raifing the civil lift revenue, or for paying the intereft and principal of debts already Last year, Sir, it was neceffary to contracted. That, indeed, which have 10,000 for feveral reafons that is allotted for paying off and finking F do not now exift, fome of which I the principal of our debt, we may, fhall beg leave to mention. In the now and then, in a cafe of necefity, first place, at the beginning of last year make free with, becaufe fuch is the it was to be apprehended that pirates publick credit of this kingdom, might appear in fome of the diftant that none of its creditors defire to parts of the ocean, as has generally December, 1751. happened after a long war, when LB, Yyy great • See London Magazine for Sept, laft, p. 410, E of publick expence upon which a faving may be made, without risking that fecurity we are now blessed with. Some of thefe gentlemen I have converfed with, and all I have talked to upon the subject, join with me in opinion, that 8000 feamen will be fufficient for the fervice of the enfuing year; fo that we may reduce 2000 of those we had laft year in the publick fervice, which will be a faving of 104,000l. 538 PROCEEDINGS of the POLITICAL CLUB, &c. Dec. great numbers of feamen of all maritime nations are disbanded, and cannot find employment in the merchantfervice; and as this, had it happened, would have very much disturbed our trade, it was neceffary to keep fome fhips in commiffion, that they might be ready to fail upon the first order, to intercept and destroy thofe enemies of mankind; but as none fuch have yet appeared, we may reasonably conclude, that we fhall not now be troubled with any fuch, and therefore it is unneceffary to keep any fhips in readiness for fuch a fervice. In the next place, Sir, we had at the beginning of last year feveral more ships of war in the East-Indies, than we thall now have occasion for; and as thofe fhips could not with any certainty be expected to return before the end of the year, we were obliged to provide for them during the whole, in order to prevent the nation's running in debt, which ought always to be avoided, if poffible; for, I think, it is much better, at the beginning of every feflion, to have Jome publick money to dispose of, than to have an account brought in of fervices incurred and not provided for. In the third place, we were last year obliged to have a good many thips in the Mediterranean, on account of difputes and contests we then had with fome of the nations bordering upon that fea; but as these disputes are all now accommodated in an amicable manner, or in a fair way of being fo, we fhall next year have occafion for very few fhips in that part of the world. Thus, Sir, it is evident, that the next year's fervice will not require fuch a number of feamen, as was neceffary during the laft; and as lefs than 10,000 (for we had but 9800 in actual pay) supplied all our occafions laft year, I am perfuaded, that 8000 will be fully fufficient for the year enfuing. Befides, I have taken all poffible pains to inform myself of the feveral fervices thought ne A ceffary in former times of peace, and I find, that with 8000 feamen we may keep as many and as good ftation fhips, in the Eaft and WestIndies, on the coaft of Africa, and in the Mediterranean, as have ufually been employed in a time of fettled tranquillity, and yet may have always 4000 at home, which would be fufficient for guarding our own coafts, and even for enabling us to fit out a very powerful fquadron upon any fudden emergency, because here at B home, we may always, in a few days, add double the number, in case it should by found necessary. C In this opinion I am confirmed, Sir, by confidering, that in the year 1725, we had but 5800 feamen in actual pay; and no gentleman can fuppofe, that all neceffary services were not then fully fupplied, when I inform him, that the lord Berkeley, Sir John Norris, Sir Charles Wager, and Mr. Cockburn then fat at the admiralty board. If then fo fmall a number as 5800 was at Dthat time fufficient for fupplying all neceflary fervices, can any one imagine, that 8oco will not now be sufficient for the fame purpose ? I know, I fhall be told of the late great preparations of the French, and their diligent application to the increase E of their marine; and I confefs, that of late we have been by our Gazettes pretty much amufed with these accounts; but thofe accounts are very much exaggerated; for all they have done yet can hardly be called a reftoring of their marine, after what Fit fuffered in the late war, and there is a very great difference between building of fhips and fitting them out to fea. They must build yet a long time before they can be upon an equal footing with us; and were they now upon an equal footing with G us, as to the numbers and rates of fhips, we have no occafion to keep a great number of seamen in actual pay, because it is known, that we can raise feamen, and fit out fhips, fafter 1751. PROCEEDINGS of the POLITICAL CLUB, &c. 539 faster than they ever could, or, I hope, ever will be able to do. I therefore hope, Sir, that by thefe phantoms, which are dreffed up by our news papers in order to amufe their readers, gentlemen will not allow themselves to be frightened into a greater expence than is neceffary for the prefent fervice, especially as there is not the leaft appearance that France has any immediate defign of coming to a rupture with this nation. Gentlemen fhould upon this occafion reflect, that if in time B of peace we keep up a greater number of feamen than we have any call for, it may difable us from keeping up, in time of war, fuch a number as may then be abfolutely neceffary for our fafety at home, and the prefervation of our dominions in different parts of the world. This, tho' a diftant danger, ought to be a prefent dread ; and will have great weight with every one who confiders, that now in time of peace we must pay off a confiderable part of our prefent debt, otherwife we can expect no credit for carrying on any future war. This has with me a weight fuperior to every other confideration; and will, I hope, be my excufe for moving, That 8000 men only be employed in the fea fervice for this current year. The next that Spoke in this Debate was C. Numifius, whofe Speech was in Subftance thus. Mr. Prefident, SIR, WHAT of. Economy must always be of great fervice to ftates as well as private families; and I fhall heartily agree to its being abfolutely neceffary for us in our prefent diftreffed circumstances; for diftreffed I A muft call them, when it is of all fides admitted, that we can hardly fupport our government in time of peace, without laying violent hands on that facred treasure defigned for the difcharge of our debts. But however neceffary œconomy may be to us, I must be of opinion, that what the noble lord advifes, would be a beginning at the wrong end. Instead of beginning we fhould end with, or rather at our navy; for we have already reduced our number of feamen more than we ought ever to do. At least, we should reduce every other article of expence, before we think of making any farther reduction of that which is really the palladium of this country, I mean the number we have of brave and experienced feamen. Other D countries may have as many fhips as we; and particularly France, if they will be at the expence, may in a few years exceed us in number and ftrength of fhips; but fhips of war, without feamen, are like fortify'd towns without garifons, only fit to E be taken or destroyed by an enemy: and unless it be our own fault, neither France, nor any country in the whole world, can ever exceed us, or equal us in number of brave and experienced feamen. C This, Sir, is an advantage which F we have from nature, not from our conduct; for our late conduct has been fuch, we have treated our failors in fuch a harsh manner, as if we defigned to banish from our dominions every man that could pretend to be a failor; and indeed, confidering our methods of preffing, our method of paying them their wages, and our method of turning them over from fhip to fhip, I am furprised that any of our common men ever enter into Y y y z the THAT the noble lord has been pleased to say to us, seems to me fomething like the fabulous Scylla, as defcribed by Virgil, all beauty above, all deformity below; and if what he propofes fhould be complied with, it will be as per- G nicious to our marine, as that monfler was to the marine of the ancients. His lordship fet out with a maxim, which I highly approve BN 510 PROCEEDINGS of the POLITICAL CLUB, &c. Dec: B Gentlemen muft from hence fee, Sir, that the noble lord has put the neceffity we are under of keeping a number of feamen in the publick fervice, even in time of peace, upon a very wrong foundation. It is not for protection, Sir, we do fo. We have no occafion for protection, when there is neither enemy nor pirate to be met with in the ocean. If protection were the only reafon, we should have no occafion for keeping one fhip in commiffion, or one failor in pay, during a time of profound tranquillity. found tranquillity. But the true reafon, and indeed the only reafon for our keeping any fhip in commiffion, or any failor in pay, when there is neither enemy nor pirate to be apprehended, is to preferve our C character as a maritime power, and to prevent our being reduced to the neceffity of that oppreffive and pernicious practice of prefling feamen into the fervice of the government; and will the noble lord fay, can any man fay, that 8000 men is fufficient for this purpose. the fea fervice, or into any fort of E Sir, I will be bold to fay, that 15,000 is not fully fufficient for this purpofe; 20,000 expert and able feamen is the leaft the government fhould always have in its fervice; and if we should refolve to have no ufelefs troops at home, nor any princes in our pay abroad, in time. of peace, nor any fine-cure places, extravagant falaries, or unmerited penfions in time of peace or war, I will fay, that we might keep 20,000 feamen in pay in time of peace, without ever allowing the annual expence to exceed the annual produce of the malt-tax and a land tax of 2s. in the pound; for in that cafe his majefty might fpare to apply. 100,000l. or two yearly out of the civil lift revenue, towards fupporting G our navy, which, I am very fure, would be more effectual for gaining him the good-will of his people, the furett foundation of his throne, than double that fum applied towards main taining |