546 PROCEEDINGS of the POLITICAL CLUB, &. are best acquainted with the nature Dec. neceflity of preffing for the land as well as fea fervice. In my opinion therefore, Sir, it is impoffible to prevent our being reduced to the neceffity of preffing at the beginning of a war, by any other method but that of keeping in time of peace as large, or very near as large a number of feamen in the pay of the publick, as we can have occafion for at the breaking out of a war; and this, I think, no man will ever advise, especially B in our prefent circumftances; confequently, when we are to confider what number of feamen may be neceflary in time of peace, we are to have regard only to the preferving of our character as a maritime power, and to that of preventing Cour being obliged to bring too great a diftrefs upon our trade, when we happen to be involved in war, which, I hope, will not be for many years to come. It is this regard alone, Sir, that in time of peace obliges us to keep any fhip in commiffion, or any able feaman in the pay of the publick; for I agree with the Hon. gentleman, that at prefent, as we have neither enemy nor pirate to fear, we fhould not otherwise have any occafion to put the publick to this expence. I fhall grant, Sir, that in the prefent question our character as a mari. time power, and the fupply of our navy upon any fudden emergency without diftreffing trade, are both to be confidered; for as to that of preffing, I am of opinion, that it is impoffible to prevent the neceffity of it, by any other method than that of keeping, in time of peace, as many feamen in pay, as we could have occafion for in time of war. Suppose we were in time of peace to keep 20,000 feamen in pay, we fhould want 20,000 more upon the first breaking out of a war, and it would be impoflible for us to get that num- D ber without preffing; because our merchants will always give higher wages than the publick can afford to give, and no man, or at leaft very few, will ever chufe to lift in the publick fervice, when they can have higher wages in that of the E merchants. To fupply our navy, upon the breaking out of a war, without preffing, is therefore to me a chimera; and every project hitherto offered for preventing the neceffity of preffing has upon examination appeared to be chimerical. It would be the fame in the land fervice, if no man could be a foldier but he that had ferved a seven years apprenticeship to the trade; but as every plowman, every tradefman, or fervant, may be a foldier, we have hitherto found volunteers or vagabonds enough for fupplying that fervice; tho', if the war thould become fo heavy as not to find from thence a fufficient fupFly, we should then be reduced to the F Now, Sir, with regard to our character as a maritime power, it depends more upon the number of fhips we have ready to put in commission, and the number of feamen we have at command, than upon the number we have at any time in commiflion, or in the actual fervice of the publick. With regard to the latter, it must always depend upon the conduct of our neighbours, or of those who can be called our rivals in naval power: When they keep few fhips in commiffion, and G few feamen in pay, we may take that opportunity to fave the publick money by following their example; and as foon as they begin to increase their expence that way, we ought POLITICAL CLUB, &c. 547 feamen may have lately gone into foreign service. It is a laudable 1751. PROCEEDINGS of the concern, Sir, a concern which I am glad to fee gentlemen affected with; but to alleviate their fears in this refpect, I muft obferve, that during the war multitudes of landmen of alt profeffions entered into the fea fervice, and multitudes of foreign feamen were employed by our merchants The former have returned to their usual employments at land, and the latter to their respective native countries. To this I fhall add, that great numbers of our own seamen, who were provident enough to fave fomething out of the high wages they received, and the many prizes they were concerned in taking during the war, are now fettled in fome C bufinefs or employment at land, either here or in our plantations; and from all these we may, I believe, account for the whole number that have been difmiffed the government's fervice, without fuppofing that many of them have gone into foreign fervice. For my own part, I am convinced, that very few of our seamen have gone into foreign fervice, except fuch as had loft all character at home, or were become liable to fevere punishment for fome atrocious crime ; and such as dare, will, I am perfuaded, return as foon as poffible; for there is no country in the world where the feamen are fo well provided for as in this, nor any country where they are not expofed to all the hardships that are complained of Our character as a maritime power may therefore be preferved by keeping our fhips of war always in perfect trim, by encouraging our commerce and fifheries, and by having always a number of feamen in the D publick fervice, equal to that of any of our rivals; and for this laft purpofe 8000 must for next year be fufficient, because there is no potentate in Eu rope has at prefent fo many in actual fervice. This number will likewise, in my opinion, be fufficient for pre- E venting our being obliged to distress our trade upon the appearance of any rupture; for it has been admitted, that we may take 10,000 feamen from our trade without diftreffing it, and with that number added to what we have, and fuch a proportion of landmen as the fervice will admit of, we may in a few weeks fit out a more powerful fquadron, than any state in Europe can in feveral months fit out against us; and if we should want a greater number, we know how to fupply our trade, by giving them leave to employ foreign feamen; which leads me to confider that concern fome gentlemen feem to be under, lett multitudes of our in this. F The fears, therefore, of our feamen being gone into the fervice of France, however laudable, are, in my opinion, groundless; and as to the apprehenfions fome gentlemen have from what we hear of the efforts of France to reitore or increase their marine, we cannot, furely, have any thing to fear from thence for this enfuing year; for in that time it will be abfolutely impoffible for France fo to increase their marine, 2222 G as 548 PROCEEDINGS of the POLITICAL CLUB, &c. Dec. as to be able to cope with us at fea; may build fhips, they may even exand they fmarted fo feverely in the ceed us in number and ftrength laft war, that I believe, they will of fhips, as the Spaniards did in take care not to come to a rupture queen Elizabeth's time;, but unless with this nation, till they think they have expert and able feamen to themselves at leaft a match for us at navigate and fight thofe fhips, they fea. If ever they fhould grow fo A will, in cafe of a war, only ferve to vain, I hope, they will find them- adorn our naval triumphs. So far felves miftaken; efpecially, if we therefore from being afraid of the take care to preferve a powerful al- French efforts towards establishing a liance upon the continent, ready to fuperior naval power, I think, we attack them by land, if they fhould ought to be glad to hear of it, beever venture to attack us by fea; caufe it is an attempt in which they and for this purpofe nothing can be B can never fucceed; and the expence fo effectual as that of fecuring the they are at in this way, will render internal quiet of Germany, by getthem the lefs able to defend themting a king of the Romans chofen. felves against our confederates at If by a few fubfidies we can do this, land, in cafe of a new war. it will be money as well laid out as any that was ever expended by this nation; for France will be cautious C of disturbing the tranquillity of this kingdom, or of Europe, unless they have a well-grounded hope of being able to flir up a civil war in Germany; and I am fure, it is not our business to provoke France to a rupture, which fome gentlemen feem D to be aiming at, by endeavouring to create jealoufics and mifunderftandings between the two nations. No gentleman, furely, Sir, fuppofes that we can fend to France, to enjoin them not to build any more I hope, Sir, I have now allayed gentlemens fears of the growing maritime power of France: I hope I have fhewn, that 8000 feamen will, for this next year at least, be fully fufficient for all neceffary purposes; and as to the faving by the reduction, I fhall grant, it will not be fo confiderable as I could wish; but as the wear and tear, and fea ordnance, do not cost near so much when ships are laid up, as when they are in commiflion, the faving will be more con. fiderable than the Hon. gentleman who spoke laft, was pleased to reckon. Something, 'tis true, muft be added to the ordinary of the navy on account of the fhips that are to be laid up; but it will not amount to 40,000l. nor half the money ; and a faving of above four core thousand pounds, cannot be looked on as a trifle in our prefent circumftances. As to the difference of fentiments, which he was at fuch pains to point out to us, it is a difference which I cannot yet difcover: His majefty is not, furely, to repeat every year the fame thing in his fpeech from the throne; and when he does G not mention the fleet, we cannot pro perly take notice of it in our addrefs; but I can take upon me to fay, that his majesty and all his fervants have now the care of the fleet as much at heart, F fhips of war, or not to increase E their marine, under the pain of our declaring war against them, if they did. All Europe would confederate against us, fhould we affume any fuch dictatorial power. All we can do therefore is, to take care to be equal, if not fuperior, to France in naval ftrength. How is this to be done? Not by fquandering our money upon ufelefs armaments in time of peace, but by faving as much as poffible, and encouraging our commerce, our fisheries and our plantations. If we do this, we have got fo much the start of France, and have fuch an advantage from our fituation, that it will never be in their power to come up with us. They 1751. Three CLASSES of POOR. year B heart, as they had two years ago, or at any preceding time: As a proof of this, all our ships are now in perfect order, a very few excepted, a very large fum has been this laft year laid out in buildings, rebuildings and repairs of the navy, and I be. A lieve, gentlemen will find, that a confiderable fum will this year be afked, and, I hope, granted for the fame purpose. In fhort, Sir, our navy coft us this laft above a million fterling, which is more than can be raised by a land tax of 25. ,in the pound; and notwithstanding the reduction propofed, it will, I believe, this next year coft us near 850,0col; both which articles of expence I highly approve of, because I thall always be for reducing the number of feamen in the pay of the C publick, rather than to neglect keeping our fhips in compleat repair; for from our commerce and fisheries, both which will, I hope, increase every day, we may have feamen when we want them, but can no where have ships unless we have them D of our own, and ready for fervice. For this reason, Sir, and because I do not think that, during the course of this year, we can fland in need of more than 8000 feamen, I fhall be for concurring with the noble lord in the motion he has been pleafed to make. [This JOURNAL to be continued, and this DEBATE concluded in our APPENDIX.] Continuation of the Remarks on Propofals lately made for repealing most of the Poor Laws, and for eredling COUNTY WORK-HOUSES. (See p. 499.) III. NOW come to fhew, that E F the making the propofed alterations in the laws relating to the poor, and erecting county work-G houses, will be attended with very burdenfome and cruel circumstances, both with regard to the poor themelves, and to parishes. In order to make the cafe quite 549 plain with regard to the poor, I fhall divide them into three claffes, and confider who are commonly chargeable, viz. 1. The old, lame, and infirm. z. Thofe that are burdened with a fick or numerous family. 3. Thofe that reduce themfelves to beggary, by a drunken, vicious, and lewd course of life. To difpatch thefe laft in the first place, I thall obferve here concerning them, once for all, that they ought to be confined to hard labour, in Bridewells or publick work houfes, (and for them only there ought to be fuch) and kept from all trong liquors; on purpofe to try whether they can be reformed. And if, upon a trial or two, they will not amend, but perfift in their drunken or vicious courfe, then they ought to be tranfported to places where they can be doomed to perpetual work. For, indeed, they deferve little or no compaffion, being only a burden upon the earth, and the pells of fociety. But to the other two forts of poor the utmoft compassion is due. And towards them it is most particularly exerted, in relieving them parochially; either by a moderate weekly allowance; or by taking them into a work-houfe erected in each parifh, and there employing them according to their skill and abilities. I fay, in relieving them parochially. For, if they are old, lame, and infirm, they generally have the advantage and comfort of living with fome of their children, who use them with filial tenderness, and contribute fome fhare towards their fupport and maintenance. And being in places where they are well known, if their behaviour has been tolerably honeft, inoffenfive, and regular, they get a great deal of comfortable relief, either in alms or victuals, from their charitable and well-difpofed neighbours. By which means they are content with an al lowance 550 Arguments against County Work-Houfes. lowance comparatively fmall; but, under their circumstances, fufficient. All which advantages would abfolutely he loft, by burrying them away from all their friends and relations, and confining them in places extremely difagreeable at beft; where no regard would, or could be had to their part good behaviour. Belides, a poor old perfon, as his health permits, with his little weekly allowance, may earn fomewhat, by picking up ftones, or fuch eafy employments. But if he is lodged in one of thefe caftles in the air (county work-houfes) unufed as he is to the works there generally carried on, spinning or the like; it is not one filling, or perhaps two, or three, a week, that can maintain him there. All which, befides the lofs of his work, is fo much lofs to the flock of the community. A Dec. chial work. houfes; but which would be quite intolerable in the fuppofed and imaginary vaft county ones? Perhaps, this would but little affect the bold, the impudent, and the vicious poor, who (if they cannot have a plentiful allowance, to spend in their own way, not indeed a very honeft one; which is what all fuch creatures covet, out of, and without a work-house) do in general little regard where they are placed, provided they are not killed with work, and have their bel lies well filled. But how deeply, how fenfibly, how grievously, would it affect the honeft, the fober, and the modeft poor! For fear of B being fent thither, they would undergo any hardships, rather than apply for relief; and I may affirm with great truth, that thousands and ten thousands of the better fort of poor would, by that means, yearly starve and perish in the nation. And if any perfons can be fo inhuman as to drive the poor, our fellow-creatures, and fellowchriftians, to fuch dreadful alternative, they must have loft all compaffion. No tender mind can really think of fo wild and cruel a project, all the circumstances of it confidered, without horror. would indeed keep away the poor, and leffen their number, but it would be by ftarving of them. In a word, it would be doing a vifible evil, that good may come of it. As to the younger fort of poor, thofe that are burdened with a fick or numerous family; they are employed by the refpec. ive parishes to which they belong, in hufbandry, or other fuitable works; and, С when that is not fufficient, they are other. wife provided for, in the most frugal and judicious manner. Perhaps, fix-pence a week to pay a poor family's house-rent, with a few additional fhillings in cafe of illness, enables them to live with comfort: But if you take a man, and lus family, of, perhaps, 4 or 5 children, into one of the fuppofed county work-houfes; how much larger an expence, and confequently how great an injury will that be to the commumity? And in every family fo taken, there would be always feveral too young to do the leaft work. D From what has happened in places where work houfe corporations, including many parishes, have been fet up, these ill confequences would inevitably follow: For human nature is always and every where the fame. The poor in general would be naftily kept, and the old and infirm, especially, over-run with vermin, and very much neglected; their great number not admitting of a better care. They would be pinched every way, and as much as poffible got from them by their inspectors. And the best and most careful guardians in the world could not by any means prevent it, unless they were always to live with them, and fee them ferved with meat, drink, &c. For, let the most fanguine promoters of this airy defign be affured, that it is extremely difficult to get honeft and fuitable governors, even of parochial and fmall work-houfes, much more of larger, or county ones: Where the care and confinement must be stricter, and the temptations and opportunities to make great gains, and confequently to difhonefly, much greater. Such governors may be good for a little while, or appear fo: But the air of those places is infectious. Most of thofe that |