1555. Mary. to say, than you have said. Only I refer you to your own experience, to think of our country parliaments and convocations, how and what ye have there seen and A.D. heard. The more part in my time did bring forth the six articles; for then the king would so have it, being seduced of certain. Afterwards the more part did The in- repel the same, our good Josias willing to have it so. The same articles now constancy again, alas! another great but worse part hath restored. Oh, what an uncerEnglish tainty is this! But after this sort most commonly are man's proceedings, God be merciful unto us. Who shall deliver us from such torments of mind? Therefore is death the best physician but unto the faithful, whom she together vocations. and at once delivereth from all griefs. You must think this written upon this Death is occasion, because you would needs have your paper blotted." of the parlia ments and con the best physician to the Antonian :-" If the matter should go thus, that in general councils men should not stand to the more number of the multitude (I mean of them which faithful. ought to give voices), then should no certain rule be left unto the church, by Ninth ob- the which controversies in weighty matters might be determined: but it is not jection. to be believed, that Christ would leave his church destitute of so necessary a help and safeguard." Answer. Ridley: Christ, who is the most loving spouse of his espouse the church, who also gave himself for it, that he might sanctify it unto himself,1 did give unto it abundantly all things which are necessary to salvation; but yet so, that the church should declare itself obedient unto him in all things, and keep itself within the bounds of his commandments; and further, not to seek any thing which he teacheth not, as necessary unto salvation. Now further, for determination of all controversies in Christ's religion, Christ himself hath left unto the church not only Moses and the Prophets, whom he willeth his church in all doubts to go unto, and ask counsel at, but also the Gospels, and the rest of the body of the New Testament; in the which whatsoever is heard of Moses and the prophets, and whatsoever is necessary to be known unto salvation, is revealed and opened. So that now we have no need to say, 'Who shall climb up into heaven, or who shall go down into the depth, to tell us what is needful to be done?' Christ hath done both, and hath commended unto us the word of faith, which also is abundantly declared unto us in his word written; so that hereafter, if we walk earnestly in this way, to the searching out of the truth, it is not to be doubted, but through the certain benefit of Christ's Spirit, which he hath promised unto his, we may find it, and obtain everlasting life. 'Should men ask counsel of the dead for the living?' saith Isaiah. Let them go rather to the law and to the testimony, etc. Christ sendeth them that be desirous to know the truth, unto the Scriptures, saying, 'Search the Scriptures." I remember a like thing well spoken of Jerome: Ignorance of the Scriptures is the mother and cause of all errors." And in another place, as I remember in the same author: The knowledge of the Scriptures is the food of everlasting life.' But now methinketh I enter into a very broad sea, in that I begin to show, either out of the Scriptures themselves, or out of the ancient writers, how much the holy Scripture is of force to teach the truth of our religion. But this is it that I am now about, that Christ would have the church, his spouse, in all doubts to ask counsel at the word of his Father written, and faithfully left, and commended unto it in both Testaments, the Old and New. Neither do we read, that Christ in any place hath laid so great a burden upon the members of his spouse, that he hath commanded them to go to the universal church. Whatsoever things are written,' saith Paul, are written for our learning." And it is true, that Christ gave unto his church, some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some shepherds and teachers, to the edifying of the saints, till we come all to the unity of faith, etc. But that all men should meet together out of all parts of the world, to define of the articles of our faith, I neither find it commanded of Christ, nor written in the word of God." 18 Latimer:-"There is diversity betwixt things pertaining to God or faith, and politic and civil matters. For in the first we must stand only to the (1) Eph. v. [Compare on this subject, Art. vi. and xx. of the Church of England-' Of the sufficiency of Holy Scripture for Salvation,' and' Of the authority of the Church.'-ED.] (2) Luke xiii. Isaiah viii. (6) John v. (9) Eph. iv. (3) Rom. x. (5) Isaiah viii. prayer: A. D. Scriptures, which are able to make us all perfect and instructed unto salvation, if Mary. they be well understood.' And they offer themselves to be well understood only to them, which have good wills, and give themselves to study and neither are there any men less apt to understand them, than the prudent and wise 1555. men of the world. But, in the other, that is, in civil or politic matters, oftentimes the magistrates do tolerate a less evil, for avoiding of a greater, as they which have this saying oft in their mouths: Better an inconvenience than a mischief.' And 'it is the property of a wise man,' saith one, to dissemble many things; and he that cannot dissemble, cannot rule.' In which sayings they bewray themselves, that they do not earnestly weigh what is just, what is not. Wherefore forasmuch as man's laws, if it be but in this respect only, that they be devised by men, are not able to bring any thing to perfection, but are enforced of necessity to suffer many things out of square, and are compelled sometimes to wink at the worst things: seeing they know not how to maintain the common peace and quiet otherwise, they do ordain that the more part shall take place. You know what these kinds of speeches mean, I speak after the manner of men;' 'Ye walk after the manner of men;' 'All men are liars:'2 and that of St. Augustine, 'If ye live after man's reason, ye do not live after the will of God.'" Antonian:-" If ye say, that councils have sometimes erred, or may err, how Tenth obthen should we believe the catholic church? for the councils are gathered by jection. the authority of the catholic church." Ridley:-" From may be,' to be indeed,' is no good argument; but from Answer. 'being,' to 'may be,' no man doubteth but it is a most sure argument. But now that councils have sometime erred, it is manifest. How many councils were there in the east parts of the world, which condemned the Nicene council; and all those which would not forsake the same, they called by a slanderous name (as they thought), 'Homousians.'3 Were not Athanasius, Chrysostome, Cyril, Eustathius, men very well learned, and of godly life, banished and condemned as famous heretics, and that by wicked councils? How many things are there in the canons and constitutions of the councils, which the papists themselves do much mislike! But here, peradventure, one man will say unto me, 'We will grant you this in provincial councils, or councils of some one nation, that they Objection. may sometimes err, forasmuch as they do not represent the universal church; but it is not to be believed, that the general and full councils have erred at any time.' Here, if I had my books of the councils, or rather such notes as I have gathered out of those books, I could bring something which should serve for this purpose. But now, seeing I have them not, I will recite one place only out of St. Augustine, which (in my judgment) may suffice in this matter instead of many. "Who knoweth not,' saith he, that the Holy Scripture is so set Answer. before us, that it is not lawful to doubt of it, and that the letters of bishops may be reproved by other men's words, and by councils; and that the councils themselves which are gathered by provinces and countries, do give place to the authority of the general and full councils; and that the former and general councils are amended by the latter, when by some experience of things, either that which was shut up is opened, or that which was hid is known.'s Thus much out of Augustine. But I will plead with our Antonian upon matter confessed. Here with us, when papistry reigned, I pray you how doth that book, which was called the Bishop's Book, made in the time of king Henry the Eighth, The whereof the bishop of Winchester is thought to be either the first father, or bishop's chief gatherer; how doth it (I say) sharply reprove the Florentine council, in which was decreed the supremacy of the bishop of Rome, and that with the consent of the emperor of Constantinople, and of the Grecians? So that in those days our learned ancient fathers and bishops of England did not stick to affirm, that a general council might err. But me thinketh I hear another man (1) 2 Tim. iii. (3) Soc. Eccles. Hist. lib. ii. · (2) Gal. v. 1 Cor. ii. Rom. iii. Psalm cxiii. (5) Lib. ii. de Baptis. cont. Don. cap. 3. book. Mary. despising all that I have brought forth, and saying, 'These which you have called councils, are not worthy to be called councils, but rather assemblies and A.D. conventicles of heretics.' I pray you, sir, why do you judge them worthy of so 1555. slanderous a name? 'Because, saith he, they decreed things heretical, con The of Rome's abjured trary to true godliness and sound doctrine, and against the faith of christian religion.' The cause is weighty, for the which they ought of right so to be called. But, if it be so that all councils ought to be despised, which decree any thing contrary to sound doctrine, and the true word, which is according to godliness, forasmuch as the mass, such as we had here of late, is openly against the word of God; forsooth it must follow of necessity, that all such councils, as have approved such masses, ought of right to be fled and despised, as conventicles and assemblies of men that stray from the truth. "Another man allegeth unto me the authority of the bishop of Rome, 'withbishop of out which neither can the councils,' saith he, be lawfully gathered, neither, authority. being gathered, determine any thing concerning religion.' But this objection is only grounded upon the ambitious and shameless maintenance of the Romish tyranny and usurped dominion over the clergy; which tyranny we Englishmen England long ago, by the consent of the whole realm, have expulsed and abjured. And how rightly we have done it, a little book set forth, 'De utraque potestate' supre- (that is, of both the powers) doth clearly show. I grant that the Romish ambition hath gone about to challenge to itself and to usurp such a privilege of old time. But the council of Carthage, in the year of our Lord 457, did openly withstand it, and also the council at Milevis, in the which St. Augustine was present, did prohibit any appellations to be made to bishops beyond the sea." the pope's macy. Eleventh Antonian :-"St. Augustine saith, 'the good men are not to be forsaken for objection. the evil, but the evil are to be borne withal for the good.' Ye will not say (I trow) that in our congregations all be evil."3 Answer. Twelfth Ridley:-"I speak nothing of the goodness or evilness of your congregations; but I fight in Christ's quarrel against the mass, which doth utterly take away and overthrow the ordinance of Christ. Let that be taken quite away, and then the partition of the wall that made the strife, shall be broken down. Now to the place of St. Augustine, for bearing with the evil for the good's sake: there ought to be added other words, which the same writer hath expressedly in other places; that is,—if those evil men do cast abroad no seeds of false doctrine, nor lead others to destruction by their example.' "4 Antonian:-"It is perilous to attempt any new thing in the church, which objection. lacketh example of good men. How much more perilous is it to commit any act, unto the which the example of the prophets, of Christ, and of the apostles, is contrary!' But unto this your fact, in abstaining from the church by reason of the mass, the example of the prophets, of Christ, and of the apostles, is clean contrary therefore, etc. The first part of the argument is evident, and the second part I prove thus: In the times of the prophets, of Christ, and his apostles, all things were most corrupt. The people was miserably given to superstition, the priests despised the law of God; and yet, notwithstanding, we read not that the prophets made any schisms or divisions; and Christ himself haunted the temple, and taught in the temple of the Jews. Peter and John went up into the temple at the ninth hour of prayer; Paul, after the reading of the law, being desired to say something to the people, did not refuse to do it. Yea further, no man can show, that either the prophets, or Christ and his apostles, did refuse to pray together with others, to sacrifice, or to be partakers of the sacrament of Moses' law." Answer. Ridley :-"I grant the former part of your argument, and to the second part I say, that although it contain many true things, as of the corrupt state in the times of the prophets, of Christ, and the apostles, and of the temple being haunted of Christ and his apostles; yet, notwithstanding, the second part of your argument is not sufficiently proved: for ye ought to have proved, that either the prophets, either Christ or his apostles, did in the temple communicate with the people in any kind of worshipping, which is forbidden by the law of (1) 1 Tim. vi. (2) Concil. Carthag. 3. can. 22. [The sixth council at Carthage, anno 419, would suit Ridley's argument better, and seems to be the one intended: see Labbé, tom. ii. col. 1589; and for the council at Milevis, see the same volume, col. 1542.-ED.] (3) Aug. Ep. 48, now 93, § 15.-ED. (4) Aug. lib. iii. cont. literas Parm. cap. 23. (5) Luke xxi. Heb. i. Acts xiii. God, or repugnant to the word of God. But that can nowhere be showed. Latimer :- Mary A. D. 1555. objection. Antonian :-"Seeing you are so obstinately set against the mass, that you Thiraffirm, because it is done in a tongue not understood of the people, and for teenth other causes (I cannot tell what), therefore is it not the true sacrament ordained of Christ, I begin to suspect you, that you think not catholicly of baptism, also. Is our baptism, which we do use in a tongue unknown unto the people, the true baptism of Christ, or no? If it be, then doth not the strange tongue hurt the mass. If it, be not the baptism of Christ, tell me, how were (1) Epist. 119. [now 55, cap. 19, § 35.-Ed.) (4) 2 Chron. xiii. (7) Judith xii. (2) Tob. i. (3) 1 Chron. xiii. See Appendix. Mary. you baptized; or whether will ye (as the Anabaptists do), that all which were baptized in Latin, should be baptized again in the English tongue?" A. D. Answer. Ridley:-" Although I would wish baptism to be given in the vulgar tongue 1555. for the people's sake which are present, that they may the better understand their own profession, and also be more able to teach their children the same, yet, notwithstanding, there is not like necessity of the vulgar tongue in baptism, as in the Lord's supper. Baptism is given to children, who, by reason of their age, are not able to understand what is spoken unto them, what tongue soever it be. The Lord's supper is, and ought to be, given to them that are waxen. Moreover, in baptism, which is accustomed to be given to children in the Latin tongue, all the substantial points (as a man would say) which Christ commanded to be done, are observed. And therefore I judge that baptism to be a perfect and true baptism; and that it is not only not needful, but also not lawful for any man so christened, to be christened again. But yet notwithstanding, they ought to be taught the catechism of the Christian faith, when they shall come to years of discretion; which catechism whosoever despiseth, or will not desirously embrace and willingly learn, in my judgment he playeth not the part of a Christian man. But in the popish mass are wanting certain substantials, that is to say, things commanded by the word of God to be observed in the ministration of the Lord's supper; of the which there is sufficient declaration made before." Four objection. Latimer:--" Where you say, 'I would wish,' surely I would wish that you had spoken more vehemently, and to have said, It is of necessity, that all things in the congregation should be done in the vulgar tongue, for the edifying and comfort of them that are present, notwithstanding that the child itself is sufficiently baptized in the Latin tongue." Antonian:-Forasmuch as I perceive you are so stiffly, I will not say obstiteenth nately, bent, and so wedded to your opinion, that no gentle exhortations, no wholesome counsels, no other kind of means can call you home to a better mind, there remaineth that which, in like cases, was wont to be the only remedy against stiff-necked and stubborn persons, that is, you must be hampered by the laws, and compelled either to obey whether ye will or no, or else to suffer that which a rebel to the laws ought to suffer. Do you not know that whosoever refuseth to obey the laws of the realm, he bewrayeth himself to be an enemy to his country? Do you not know that this is the readiest way to stir up sedition and civil war? It is better that you should bear your own sin, than that through the example of your breach of the common laws, the common quiet should be disturbed. How can you say, you will be the queen's true subject, when you do openly profess that you will not keep her laws?" Answer. Ridley:-"O heavenly Father, the Father of all wisdom, understanding, and true strength, I beseech thee, for thy only Son our Saviour Christ's sake, look mercifully upon me, wretched creature, and send thine Holy Spirit into my breast, that not only I may understand according to thy wisdom, how this pestilent and deadly dart is to be borne off, and with what answer it is to be beaten back, but also when I must join to fight in the field for the glory of thy name, that then I, being strengthened with the defence of thy right hand, may manfully stand in the confession of thy faith, and of thy truth, and continue in the same unto the end of my life, through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, Amen. "Now to the objection. I grant it to be reasonable, that he, which by words and gentleness cannot be made to yield to that is right and good, should be bridled by the strait correction of the laws: that is to say, he that will not be subject to God's word, must be punished by the laws. It is true that is commonly said, 'He that will not obey the gospel, must be tamed and taught by the rigour of the law.' But these things ought to take place against him which refuseth to do that is right and just according to true godliness, not against him, which cannot quietly bear superstitions and the overthrow of Christ's institutions, but doth hate and detest from his heart such kind of proceedings, and that for the glory of the name of God. "To that which ye say, a transgressor of the common laws bewrayeth himself to be an enemy of his country, surely a man ought to look unto the nature of the laws, what manner of laws they be which are broken: for a faithful Christian ought not to think alike of all manner of laws. But that saying ought only truly to be understood of such laws as be not contrary to God's word. Other |