for myself; I cannot speak for the Federation, but that would appear to me, if this Order is carried, to be the best solution.

The desire of the Federation is that this churchyard and monument and tomb of Highland Mary should remain as they are? -Most decidedly.

Will you indicate on the map where the tomb and monument are? Where the black line crosses the two lines marking the boundary of the churchyard.

And there is, on the opposite wall of the churchyard, a little tablet indicating that immediately inside the wall is the tomb of Highland Mary ?—Yes.

Cross-examined for the Promoters.

By Mr Wilson-Are you here to-day as the result of any resolution of the Federation authorising you to speak on their behalf ? -I am here to represent them as an accredited delegate.

Who gave you the right ?--The whole question was remitted at the general meeting of September, 1918, and left to the Standing Committee, which has since met. At the last meeting they appointed Mr Ewing and myself to appear here.

It is a delegation from a delegated body ?-No; from the Standing Committee, which was invested with full powers.

When was the last meeting of the Federation ?-The first Saturday of September, 1918.

Had they before them the alternative proposal which is made on behalf of the promoters, to make a recess and leave the tombstone practically where it is, reversed ?-That was not before us.

Did you not know that the Greenock Club, at various meetings, have had before them the choice of either adopting that scheme, or, if they preferred it, removing the remains and the re-erection of the monument to some other site ?-That was hearsay to us. The Greenock Burns Club never approached us officially.

Your committee have not been inquiring as to what was going on ?-We were waiting on the Greenock Burns Club, as arranged. You got no communication ?---No.

And, now that you hear that the promoters are willing, if the Greenock Club prefer it, to reverse the tombstone, make the recess in the wall, and make it accessible from the street outside the shipbuilding yard altogether, what do you say to that ?—I have given my personal opinion, but, at the same time, I cannot speak for the Federation. That would be the minimum of disturbance.

You have not had a chance ?-A meeting will be held on 6th September ensuing, when the whole question will come up.

Re-examined by Mr Fenton-You have seen the Order that contemplates the removal of all the remains of Highland Mary ?Yes.

By the Chairman-Would this proposal to reverse the monument in Laird Street remove to some extent your objection ?— I think so. We had a meeting of the Executive on Saturday last, and it appeared to find favour. Our care is Highland Mary's grave, and it is a personal opinion I give that that would be a good solution to the question if the Provisional Order goes through.

As far as Highland Mary's monument is concerned, that would go to some extent to satisfy you ?-Yes.

You are not speaking of the church or the James Watt monument ?-We have nothing whatever to do with that.

By Mr Sturrock-You spoke about the reversing of Highland Mary's monument representing the minimum of disturbance ?That is precisely how I look at it. The sentiment attaches to the soil in which she is buried, and that would obviate any disturbance of the soil.

Are the Burns Federation perfectly clear that Highland Mary is buried there ?-No doubt whatever.

By Mr Fenton-Is it generally accepted that she was buried there in 1786, that her relative Macpherson brought her there and interred her there in that spot ?-Yes. There is no doubt she was buried there in 1786.

MR JAMES CAMERON EWING, sworn.

Are you the librarian of the Baillie's Institution, Glasgow ?Yes.

You are a member of the Library Association and the Edinburgh and Glasgow Bibliographical Societies ?—Yes.

You are a vice-president of the Burns Federation ?—Yes. And a member of the Glasgow Burns Clubs Association ?—Yes. I think you have been keenly interested in Burns's works for a long time ?-Nearly thirty years.

I think you have collaborated in the production and preparation of editions and have written very extensively on the subject ?—Yes. Have you been particularly interested in the proposal to remove to another situation the grave of Mary Campbell ?—Yes.

Have you been instructed to come here and oppose this Order by the Executive of the Burns Federation ?-Yes, along with Mr M'Naught.

I think we all know more or less the relations between Burns and Highland Mary ?-Very likely.

Have you any doubt that she was buried in 1786 by a relative called Macpherson ?--None at all. She was buried on or about

12th October, 1786.

The lair had been acquired by Peter Macpherson, and at that

date Highland Mary was buried ?-Yes, or within a day or two afterwards.

I think in 1917 the Burns Federation learned from newspaper articles that it was proposed to acquire the site of her grave for shipbuilding purposes ?-Yes.

How do you regard the presence of such a grave so far as Greenock is concerned ?-I think the presence of that grave is an honour to the town of Greenock, and ought to be respected by all, and particularly by the Corporation and the inhabitants of Greenock.

How do you regard the proposal to remove it? objectionable proposal, and one that should be opposed.

A most

You think it is a national duty to preserve it ?-I think so. Do you know that it has been the place to which many people have come ?-Many hundreds of people individually, and also many Burns Clubs have made a point of having an excursion to the West Kirkyard to see the burial-place of Mary Campbell.

It is a Burns shrine ?-Yes, one of the most interesting. You think that it would be a serious thing if the monument and the dust, or whatever remains there, were removed to another site ?-I do not think that would be desirable at all. I think it would be a desecration. The stone does not matter; it is the site which is the thing. I think on no consideration at all should the grave be interfered with.

Subscriptions

I think in 1842 a monument was erected ?-Yes. were taken in the beginning of 1841, and the foundation stone was laid in January, 1842.

A parchment was placed there recording that the monument was erected by many admirers of Scotia's Bard and Mary Campbell ?-That is on record.

Are you aware where the contributions for that monument came from ?They came from all over Scotland, and some from England. The contribution of the people of Greenock was very

small.

I think it was the subject of comment at the time ?--Yes, very strong comment.

Tell us what it was.-The honorary treasurer of the movement was a Mr Innes, a member of Her Majesty's Customs in Greenock. Mr Innes put himself to a great deal of trouble in collecting money, and was in communication with Mr John Corbet in Dundee. He wrote to him acknowledging receipt of £20 from Dundee, and in that letter he said, I cannot brag much of what I have got in Greenock; they are a pitiful set of devils." That was in 1841. Mr Wilson told us on the first day in his opening speech that Burns's remains had been removed from one part of the churchyard to another ?-That is the case. Burns was buried in 1796

in St. Michael's Churchyard in Dumfries, and his widow erected, or caused to be erected, a plain slab over his grave. Nineteen years

afterwards, in 1815, it was proposed to erect a mausoleum, and an elaborate design was obtained from Mr T. F. Hunt, a famous architect in London at that time. It was proposed to erect it in the southeast part of the churchyard.

That was from one part of the churchyard to another part of the same churchyard ?--Yes.

When the grave

In an interval of nineteen years?-Yes. was opened the coffin was intact, and they were able to put the remains in a new coffin. That, of course, could not be done now with Highland Mary's remains, for the coffin and its contents must long ago have decayed.

You are interested not only in the monument, but mainly in the site where the remains are ?-Particularly in the site.

Is it your desire, as instructed by the Federation, that that monument and grave should remain in their present surroundings?—Yes.

Cross-examination for the Promoters.

By Mr Watson-Doesn't the inscription on the grave bear that Highland Mary had lain there unnoticed for fifty years? Unmarked, do you mean?

Do you not know the inscription by heart?-It may be so worded, but I cannot carry it in my mind.

The inscription is from Mr Hill's book; is it correct ?-I think it is a very careless use of the word unnoticed."

66

Is that on the inscription ?-It may be.

Is it untrue, or are you in a position to say it is ?-I am in a position to say it is untrue. I would say it is untrue to this extent, that the grave was unmarked as the grave of Highland Mary until 1842.

It does not explain enough; it was unmarked, and therefore unnoticed?-There was no stone indicating Highland Mary, but there was Peter Macpherson's stone indicating the grave which he had bought and in which he buried Highland Mary.

In 1842 was that about the time the subscription was asked for ?-It began in 1841.

How much was raised altogether ?-Slightly over £100. Was that from all over the world?-I understand so. Including the pitiful subscription from Greenock ?—Yes. If this Order was to drop now you run the risk of another pitiful subscription when you next want it?-I don't know anything about that.

You agree with the views expressed by Mr M'Naught ?—Yes.
Entirely ?-Yes.

Mr Hill also says about the present slab that its artistic merits are not great; he does not seem to think much of what was put up for £100 ?--Yes.

Re-examined by Mr Fenton-You are not interested in the monument ?-Not much.

Your chief interest is in the site ?—Yes, the site is everything. By the Chairman-You are representing the Burns Federation. You have got here a great scheme of public improvement for Greenock to sweep away 306 insanitary houses and to develop great shipbuilders, which will be a good thing for Greenock; do you think that Rabbie Burns would put the interests of this grave above that?-I should not like to say what Robert Burns might think.

Do you agree if this monument was left in its present situation that that would remove your objection ?-Yes, provided convenient access were given to it.