376 XIII.] Jesuit Arguments always the same [CHAPTER made that Relation too, as well as this.13 And against his credit I must engage Dr. White's, who hath avowed another answer, as before is set down.14 VIII. And since A. C. relates to that Conference, which it seems he makes some good account of, I shall here, once for all, take occasion to assure the reader, that most of the points of moment in that Conference with Dr. White are repeated again and again, and urged in this Conference, or the Relation of A. C., and are here answered by me. For instance: (1.) In the Relation of the first Conference, the Jesuit takes on him to prove the unwritten word of God out of 2 Thess. ii. (page 15.) And so he doth in the Relation of this Conference with me, (p. 50.) (2.) In the first, he stands upon it, "That the Protestants upon their principles cannot hold, that all fundamental points of faith are contained in the Creed," (p. 19.) And so he doth in this, (p. 46.) (3.) In the first, he would fain, through Master Rogers' sides, wound the Church of England, as if she were unsettled in the article of Christ's Descent into Hell, (p. 21.) And he endeavours the same in this, (p. 46.) (4.) In the first, he is very earnest to prove, "That the schism was made by the Protestants," (p. 23.) And he is as earnest for it in this, (p. 55.) (5.) In the first, he lays it for a ground, "That corruption of manners is no just cause of separation from faith or Church," (p. 24.) And the same ground he lays in this, (p. 55.) (6.) In the first he will have it, "That the Holy Ghost gives continual and infallible assistance to the Church," (p. 24.) And just so will he have it in this, (p. 53-) (7.) In the first, he makes much ado about the "erring of the Greek Church," (p. 28.) And as much makes he in this, (p. 44.) (8.) In the first, he makes a great noise about the place in St. Augustine "Ferendus est disputator errans," etc. (pp. 18 and 24.) And so doth he here also, (p. 45.) (9.) In the first, he would make his proselytes believe, that he and his cause have mighty advantage by that sentence of St. Bernard, "It is intolerable pride"; and that of St. Augustine, "It is insolent madness to oppose the doctrine or practice of the Catholic Church," (p. 25.) And twice he is at the same art in this, (pp. 56 and 73.) (10.) In the first, he tells us, That Calvin confesses, "That in the Reformation there was a departure from the whole 13 For so it is said in the Title-page by A.C. 14 Sect. xxxvii. No. 1. [vide supra, p. 371.] They show very little study 377 world,"15 (p. 25.) And though I conceive Calvin spake this but of SECTION the Roman world, and of no voluntary but a forced departure, and XXXVII. wrote this to Melancthon to work unity among the Reformers, not any way to blast the Reformation; yet we must hear of it again in this, (p. 56.) (11.) But over and above the rest, one place with his own gloss upon it pleases him extremely; it is out of St. Athanasius's Creed: "That whosoever doth not hold it entire—that is," saith he, "in all points; and inviolate—that is," saith he, "in the true, unchanged, and uncorrupted sense proposed unto us by the pastors of his Catholic Church," "without doubt he shall perish everlastingly." This he hath almost verbatim in the first, (p. 20;) and in the epistle of the publisher of that Relation to the reader, under the name of W. I. [p. 2]; and then again the very same in this, if not with some more disadvantage to himself, (p. 70.) And perhaps, had I leisure to search after them, more points than these. Now the reasons which moved me to set down these particulars thus distinctly are two. The one, that whereas the [A. C. p. 68.] Jesuit 16 affirms, that in a second Conference all the speech was about particular matters, and little or nothing about the main and great general point of a continual, infallible, visible Church, in which that lady required satisfaction; and that therefore this third Conference was held: it may hereby appear that the most material, both points and proofs, are upon the matter the very same in all the three Conferences,-though little be related of the second Conference by A. C., as appears in the preface of the publisher, W. I., to the reader. So this tends to nothing but ostentation and show. The other is, that whereas these men boast so much of their cause, and their ability to defend it, it cannot but appear by this, and their handling of other points in divinity, that they labour, indeed, but no otherwise than like a horse in a mill; round about in the same circle; no farther at night than at noon; the same thing over and over again; from Tu es Petrus, to Pasce oves-from "Thou art Peter," to "Do thou feed My sheep," and back again the same way. 15 Postquam discessionem a toto mundo facere coacti sumus. [After that we were compelled to make our departure from the whole world. Calvin. Epist. 141. [ad Melanch thonem, P. 273. ed. Hanoviæ, 16 In the beginning of the Con- [CHAPTER XIV. A direct question. Can I be saved in the Roman Church? Can I be saved in the English Church? SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT. The Countess problem. Fisher says there is but one saving Faith in which all is fundamental. Laud says that an absolute belief in all doctrines is not required for salvation. He will not venture to say exactly what will damn a man. But he will say that the English Church holds all the primitive faith which is the one saving faith, and that Rome has transgressed from it. To be precise, the Romans have transgressed from the primitive Faith about the Descent into Hell; Purgatory; Communion in one kind; the need of Intention in the Priest; Worship of Images; Transubstantiation. Let the Jesuit now produce any article in which the English Church has transgressed. The Jesuit replies, that to question the infallibility of a General Council is to question the infallibility of the Church. Laud answers that the 2nd General Council of Ephesus erred. It had to be corrected by the Council of Chalcedon. Again the Jesuit asks; How is the English Church to know it has the entire Scriptures or to rely on the Creed or on the Canons of Councils, since they have no infallible Guide to assure them of this? Laud repeats the former arguments of Chapters vi. and vii. for the proof of Canonical Scripture. The Creed he is sure about, because the Church tradition persuades him, and the Scripture confirms each Article. For the Canons of Councils he has history, which is the best possible witness to their genuine character. As to the Jesuit, he is full of traps and catches, but has no infallible guide himself apart from Scripture; indeed his so-called infallible proof is often used to prove things which are untrue, e.g. Communion in one kind, the right of the Pope to dethrone Princes, Transubstantiation, etc. These no ancient Council supports. His arguments from the Athanasian Creed that the whole Roman faith must be kept start with a mistranslation. Can I be saved in the English Church? 379 SECTION Further, the Roman doctrine of Purgatory is not taught by Scripture or the primitive Church. It was defined by the Council of XXXVIII. Florence in 1438; and again with anathemas at Trent. Bellarmine indeed names 22 Fathers; but only Tertullian, Cyprian, and Origen in the first centuries. Tertullian and Cyprian he quotes wrongly; and Origen says there is no Hell, but a Purgatory in which Satan himself will be purged. Ambrose and Jerome have very vague remarks; Basil and Paulinus are wrongly quoted; and a very dubious passage in Gregory of Nazianzum Bellarmine gives incorrectly. There are two important passages put forward from Gregory of Nyssa and from Theodoret; but the passage from Theodoret is not in his works at all; and Gregory contradicts himself. Augustine leaves the whole matter doubtful. Therefore, Purgatory was certainly not an Apostolic tradition. The Jesuit repeats that a Council has defined it, and a Council is infallible. No, says Laud, no one is infallible, not even the Pope. Christian men must continue to be doubtful about many points. Christ has left no authority on earth to decide them. It is a duty not to overdefine nor to multiply dogmas. The Jesuit's One Holy Catholic Church is not the "One," nor Holy," nor "Catholic" in extent or in belief; nor is it even the prime Mother Church, for that was Jerusalem. St. Cyprian does not apply the words "root and matrix" to Rome but to the Catholic Church. The Roman Church is admittedly Apostolic, for it was founded by great Apostles; but others have a right to the title also.] The Lady asked, Whether she might be saved in the I. B. So, it seems, I was confident for the faith professed in § 38. the Church of England, else I would not have taken the salvation of another upon my soul. And sure I had reason of this my confidence; for to believe the Scripture and the Creeds, to believe these in the sense of the ancient primitive Church, to receive the four great General Councils so much magnified by antiquity, to believe all points of doctrine, generally received as fundamental in the Church of Christ, is a faith in which to live and die cannot but give salvation. And therefore I went upon a sure ground in the adventure of my soul upon that faith. Besides, in all the points of doctrine that are controverted between us, I would fain see any one point maintained by the Church of England that can be proved to depart from the foundation. You have many dangerous errors about the very foundation, in that which you 380 Way of Salvation allows some latitude in Faith [CHAPTER call the Roman faith: but there I leave you to look to your own XIV.] soul and theirs whom you seduce. Yet this is true, too, that there is "but one saving faith." But then everything which you call de fide, "of the faith," because some Council or other hath defined it, is not such a breach from that "one saving faith," as that he which expressly believes it not-nay, as that he which believes the contrary-is excluded from salvation, so his disobedience therewhile offer no violence to the peace of the Church, nor the charity which ought to be among Christians.1 And Bellarmine is forced to grant this: "There are many things de fide, which are not absolutely necessary to salvation." 2 Therefore there is a latitude in the faith, especially in reference to different men's salvation. To set bounds to this, and strictly to define it for particular men-Just thus far you must believe in every particular, or incur damnation-is no work for my pen.* These two things I am sure of: one, That your peremptory establishing of so many things that are remote deductions from the foundation, to be believed as matters of faith necessary to salvation, hath, with other errors, lost the peace and unity of the Church, for which you will one day answer. And the other, That you of Rome are gone farther from the foundation of this "one saving faith," than can ever be proved we of the Church of England have done. A. C. p. 68. II. But here A. C. bestirs himself, finding that he is come upon the point which is indeed most considerable. And, first, he answers, "That it is not sufficient to beget a confidence in this case, to say we believe the Scriptures and the Creeds in the same sense which the ancient primitive Church believed them," etc." 1 Sect. xxxii. No. 5. [vide sup. p. 262.] 2 Si esset [vera Calvini sententia, maxima pars dogmatum fidei in dubium revocari posset: nam] multa sunt de fide, quæ non sunt absolute necessaria ad salutem. [If the decision of Calvin were true, the larger part of the dogmas of faith may be proved doubtful; for many things are matters of faith, which are not absolutely necessary to salvation.]— Bellarmin. de Eccles. Militant. lib. iii. cap. 14. § 13. [Op., tom. ii. col. 150. A.] Thom. Waldens, Doctrinal. Fidei, [tom. i.] lib. ii. Artic. ii. cap. 23. [fol. 107. col. 3.] 4 Sect. xxxviii. No. 8. [vide infra, p. 389.] 5 Pope Pelagius the Second thought it was sufficient; for when the Bishops of Istria deserted his communion in causa trium Capitulorum, (because of the three Chapters) he first gives them an account of his faith, that he embraced that faith which the Apostles had delivered and the four Synods explicated: [Nos enim illam fidem prædictam tenemus, et cum omni puritate conscientiæ usque ad sanguinis effusionem defendimus, quæ sub apostolis tradita etc. . . . Unam eandemque fidem, quæ ab apostolis tradita, et sanctis patribus et prædictis quatuor synodis explanata atque |