the measure, to move that the bill be now read the second time. Lord Erskine was equally desirous with his noble friend, who proposed this measure, to look the dangers of the country full in the face; but he was convinced the best way to avert these would be, not by adopting the proposed measure, but by thoroughly and fearlessly inquiring into the causes which led to the present disastrous state of the country. The causes which induced the present unhappy condition of the poor should be particularly inquired into: but instead of sedulously turning their attention to that subject, it had been entirely passed over; and a course of measures adopted, which, instead of tending to relieve, only served to aggravate the evils they had to complain of. He would not agree to the remedy now proposed; it would be like a sick man's following the advice of a physician, who, though his medicines evidently made the patient worse, persisted in adhering to a continuation of their application. Most men-he for one-would wish in such a case, to change either the medicine or the physician. The conduct of ministers with respect to the habeas corpus act was revolting to the great body of the people, and he believed that all those who understood the characteristic freedom and blessings of the British constitution in its purity, would not think for a moment of changing it for the most specious republican system that was ever broached. The duke of Montrose, in a brief but energetic appeal to the house, supported the bill, which was calculated on a principle of merciful and preventive policy. He well knew, that with the powers possess ed by government, those who meditated the overthrow of the Bri tish constitution could easily be put down by force of arms; but it was the wise and lenient policy of his majesty's government, to prevent, by means of a bill, things from getting to such an extremity as to render such a recurrence necessary. Earl Grosvenor spoke at some length against the bill, which would be but to continue a measure which he conceived to be the principal acting cause in what the country now had to lament. In a state of profound peace, supported by such a powerful military force, ministers armed with the ordinary powers of the law, possessed ample means of putting down any real attempts against the constitution and government, without recurring to any such aggravating and obnoxious measures as that in question. They were also supported by large majo rities in parliament. The present report he regarded as a more candid one than the former. From its statements, he was confirmed in his idea that much of the dangers which were asserted to exist arose from the unprincipled misrepresentations of spies and informers, who resembled Satan himself in endeavouring to seduce others to the commission of illegal or seditious acts. The measures adopted by ministers having evidently failed, they should try a different course, and earnestly set themselves to endeavour to relieve the distresses of the people, which might in some degree be really effected by measures of strict œconomy, reducing the military establishments, as the yeomanry corps, and the guard and garrison troops would be amply sufficient for home protection, and in the abolition of sinecure offices and of reversionary grants; instead of all this, a contrary line was pursued; the acts of his majesty's ministers seemed to be K 3 delusive, delusive, and their object despotism. The persisting in such a line of conduct as they had latterly adopted, he was afraid, would terminate in a re-action, which was too dreadful to contemplate. In his view of the whole case he should, instead of agreeing to the bill being now read, vote for its rejection, or at least propose that it should be of very short duration. Lord Redesdale supported the measure, because he was as thoroughly persuaded it was necessary, as he was that any one power possessed by the government was necessary to be supported. The reports attributed to certain districts a certain portion of disaffection. This prevailed in the manufacturing districts; but it did not appear that it prevailed in the agricultural districts. But it was not as the noble lord who spoke last had represented. He would ask the noble lord, whether in the history of the whole world, disaffection had not always proceeded by the same means? If a general of an army were to stand in such a case upon his honour, what would become of his army? It was stated in the report, that a system of secrecy had been adopted infinitely beyond any that had ever been before resorted to. The former mode of carrying on plots by writing had been abandoned, because it led to detection; and it was absolutely impossible to cause information but by individuals conversing with others in private houses. This demonstrated guilt. If there was no guilt, why was this secrecy? What was the object of the leaders but the object of subverting every thing, and to take property from those who had it, and give it to those who had none? The substance of the report was, in his belief, that there existed a spirit amongst the exciters, to drive the people into insurrection. He conceived the measure to be one of prevention, and a very proper one. The cry of Wilkes and liberty was one of the most hostile to liberty that ever was uttered; and now, as then, there were a number of persons who always conceived liberty meant a privilege of doing what they pleased. He justified the late suspension of the habeas corpus act, and attributed to it the effect of preventing the disturbances which would otherwise have occurred in the manufacturing districts. By taking up the leaders and putting them in jail, the insurrection had been suppressed that had lately taken place in Nottingham and Derbyshire. The same result occurred in 1745, the rebellious conspiracy was discomfited by the apprehension of the leaders. He therefore supported the measure as one of prevention, which would save the government of the country from being completely overturned. It was the duty of the government to take care to keep down that spirit which would render necessary a recurrence to force. He gave his support to the bill, because he conceived it calculated to prevent the introduction of the most outrageous of all despotisms. Lord King thought on such grounds as had been stated by the noble lord who spoke last, he might even give his support to any measure of the government, however despotic. He did not think the danger of that nature or description which called for the suspension of the habeas corpus act; as there was no proof of extensive preparations, or of leaders of any conse quence in society, being with the conspirators. A proclamation which was never drawn was a proper pre lude lude to a plot that was never in ex months, even when the conspirators, istence. The insinuations were con- in 1745, were assisted by a foreign fined to those districts' where di- force, when the health of the Prestress was most general from want tender was a favourite toast with of work, On such grounds, the public bodies-then he could consuspension of the habeas corpus act ceive a case of danger to have exwas likely to be indefinite. A great isted, which might have given the source of satisfaction in any coun- government an excuse for a mea try was a confidence in the govern- sure of such rigour. Yet so strong ment; but by the continuance of was the feeling, that it was not car such measures, the people, instead ried without great opposition. He of considering the government to would not deny that the country was be their common friend, would re- in great danger; but in his conscigard it as their common enemy. ence he believed the remedy proThe noble lord concluded with deposed rather calculated to increase claring his opposition to the ques- the irritation than to diminish it by tion. its rigour. We had triumphantly succeeded in the result of the war; but the consequence was, that we were burthened with a taxation which we were scarcely able to stand under. The war had disturb ed all the elements of society; and because there were a few disaffected men in the country, who endea. voured to inflame the multitude, was the house to confide to ministers a power which put the liberties of every man in the kingdom at their mercy? He would ask, whether those persons had the means of exciting such general disturbances that they could be counteracted by no other measures than such as placed the whole country out of the pale of the constitution? By the arguments of prevention being better than punishment, all the measures of a despotic governa ment might be sanctioned and justified. He was by no means sure that the power would not lead to great and dangerous abuses. For it was known that a bill of indemnity would protect the ministers for the most arbitrary acts, such as confining men in distant prisons, without any foundation for the charges against them, and when they hoped for justice, they were met by a bill K 4 Earl Grey thought the subject of the night's debate so portentous to the liberties of the country, that under every disadvantage he must raise his voice in favour of the constitution. He was as much disposed to counteract the designs of those who wished to convert the present severe distress into the adoption of a measure which never had been adopted but under the most evident and cogent necessity-a measure which surrendered the liberties of the people into the hands of ministers. What was the nature of the danger? It arose from severe distress, which rendered the minds of the sufferers liable to be worked upon by artful and designing men. But was the danger any thing equal to what it was in any former time, when a similar measure was adopted? He had said, on a former occasion, that it was absurd and ridiculous to compare the danger with that which existed at different periods of the last cen tury, when the most considerable persons in this and the other house of parliament took an active part with the disaffected. Yet the habeas corpus act was then only sus pended for the short period of six of of indemnity, which prevented them from obtaining it. For such reasons he would not suffer such a measure to pass without firmly protesting against it; particularly as it had not been proved that a single case had yet occurred which the existing laws were not adequate to put down. He thought the former report was impeached in some of its most material parts, by a deliberate and solemn proceeding at Norwich, and by other evidence that had been offered. It had been further impeached by what had occurred at Glasgow, where, amongst the whole population, not above fifty or sixty persons had been found to have taken the secret oaths, and which oaths there was reason to believe were administered by persons who were employed as spies on the part of government. The noble earl alluded to the charge against Mr. N. Douglas, who was tried for sedition; but the evidence of the spies was so full of the grossest perjury, that the crown lawyers, upon the first decision, gave up the other prosecutions. The plans of the proposed insurrection in the metropolis were so absurd as to be only ludicrous: such as the proposed attack on the Tower, which two of the best regiments under the duke of Wellington could not take without the use of cannon. The noble earl adverted to the proceedings of the rioters in the Minories and on Tower-hill, which he contended might have been put a stop to by the slightest show of military resistance. From such insensate ef. forts, was the house to be told that the danger was any thing equal to what it had been at any former period? he alluded to that part of the last report which considered the intelligence to rest in a degree on the testimony of persons who had in some cases been guilty of exciting the people to acts of outrage. Such testimony, he contended, ought to be rejected altogether. Such a sy. stem (that of employing spies) was the odious character of a despotic government; but what state of society must we live in, if a practice repugnant to the feelings of every Englishman was to be resorted to? Would the house sanction the principle that spies should be employed, and, after they had been found out, be continued in favour and rewarded? He would say that every such miscreant should be brought to justice; and if he was suffered to be loose upon society, he would say that every person who had been executed had been murdered. He next alluded to the infamous character of a person who had lately given evidence, and commented with pointed severity on his conduct. Such unfortunate persons as lately rose in Derbyshire, who were the victims of distress and delusion, were to be pitied. Who could read the accounts of the black despair which seized them when they found they were not supported, without believing they were misled by such wretches as he had spoken of, to their own destruction? The noble earl read a letter from Sheffield, stating that a person named Oliver had gone in that neigbourhood and encouraged people to insurrection. He would ask the noble lord opposite, whether he could deny that he was a Government spy? He could not deny it. This fellow had represented to the people whom he met, that all the people in the metropolis were in favour of a com.. plete change of government, and that on the night preceding the trial of the state prisoners there was to be a general rising; that all the public offices were to be taken pos session session of, the prisoners liberated, &c. The noble earl adverted to the conduct of Castles, on the 2d of December, when he endeavoured to persuade Hunt that the business of Spa-fields was over, and to induce him to join in the intended attack on the Tower: thus endeavouring to mislead him by false information, that he might afterwards inform against him. So Oliver told the people, that a plan was formed that was to be simultaneously acted on in all parts of the kingdom. This absurd information had been believed and acted upon by some deluded persons in the neighbour hood of Sheffield, but no fire-arms or cartridges were found in the place where they were said to be concealed by them. He stated these facts to show that government was bound to bring this man to punishment that such double treason might not pass with impunity.-He did not charge ministers with any thing more than being deluded by such persons; but he would ask whether such people's evidence did not shake the whole system on which the contents of the report were founded,'and whether it did not convey a strong suspicion that this plot or conspiracy had been fostered, promoted, and supported by the agents of the government themselves? But if the laws of the country were not sufficient to protect us against such miserable machinations, when could we expect to be permitted to enjoy them? He looked upon the representations of county magistrates with some suspicion, and argued that they ought to be regarded with the utmost caution: and after contending at considerable length, that if the government had done its duty, it possessed means enough to repress all such disturbances as had yet occurred, without resorting to extraordinary measures, the noble earl descanted on that part of the report which described the great body of the people to be sound and loyal, even in the disturbed districts. From this he inferred, that no case had been made out for suspending the liberties of the people, and placing them in the power of ministers of the crown. He trusted the bill would not pass at all, but at all events not without an amendment that should limit its duration. The earl of Liverpool considered the speech of the noble lord to call for an answer from him, on account of some of the special points it contained. He agreed with the noble lord that the nature of the danger was first to be considered; and that there was some danger, all were ready to admit. The house were not considering the riots as arising out of distresses in particular branches of manufactures; but the question was, whether there was not an organized conspiracy for the purpose of overthrowing the government and the constitution of the country? In considering this question, he thought it a lamentable circumstance, as referred to in the report, that in many districts where there had been but little distress, the machinations had been detected amongst those who were not in want of employment, and it was here that the greatest stretch of sedition prevailed. The principle of the conspiracy had pervaded no less than seven or eight counties of the kingdom, acting by affiliation and correspondence. The argument of the noble lord seemed to be, that if no persons of consequence or influence were connected with the conspirators, no such measures of precaution as those now proposed were necessary. But respecting the paragraph in the report relative to the |