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were to have a Scotch Parliamentary Secretary, the field of choice was limited by various considerations. In the first place, the Under Secretary must be a supporter of the Government of the day, and he must be a Scotchman, or, at least,

of the Home Secretary-the Lord Advo- ministration, and for other reasons, cate being the other-as to Scotch affairs. men were often necessarily selected to He thought that everyone who had fill high and responsible posts who had looked to the evidence would see that no special knowledge of the duties there was not a shadow of foundation for which they were called upon to disthe charges which had been brought charge, perhaps for the first time; and against the Boards: he would admit, he had always understood that it was however, that he thought there was only because they were in the various some ground for the complaints as to offices gentlemen of great experience the conduct of Scotch Parliamentary and ability, who did not vacate their business, it being notorious that Bills posts when a change of Government of great importance were introduced took place, that that difficulty had been into the House of Commons at a very late successfully met. hour, and reached their Lordships' House Moreover, if they so late in the Session that it was impossible to give them due consideration. Moreover, the Lord Advocate, though generally, under any Government, a man of ability and eminence, was not always sufficiently accessible to Scotch Mem- a Scotch Member. But it was by no bers; while, occasionally, his private practice required his absence from London during the Parliamentary Session. Admitting all this, however, he thought some modification might be made with advantage. The Scotch Lord of the Treasury was not overburdened with work-indeed, Sir William Gibson Craig, who once held that post, informed the Commission that he had much difficulty in finding sufficient work, though he ultimately succeeded. Before creating, therefore, a new Scotch Office, enough work should be found for that official to prevent, at least, the time from hanging heavy on his hands. The Home Secretary was really responsible for the government of Scotland as well as of England, and for Scotch as well as English legislation. It appeared to him that what was wanted was, that the Home Secretary should be well informed as to Scotch affairs, and the wishes, feelings, and habits of thought of the Scotch people; and he thought that might be effected by placing in the Home Office a permanent Under Secretary, who, if not a Scotchman, should, at all events be well acquainted with Scotch business. It seemed to him that there were considerable advantages in that plan over the plan proposed by the Commissioners of having a Scotch Parliamentary Under Secretary. There was the obvious advantage that, as he would not change with the Government of the day, his services would be available for every Home Secretary. It was one of the difficulties of Parliamentary government that, from the frequent changes of ad

means certain that they would be able to induce the best of the Scotch Members to accept the new post. Men of energy and capacity would probably prefer to retain their independent position as private Members rather than accept a post in which there was not much to be done, and where, therefore, they would have but little opportunity of distinguishing themselves. There was a great risk that the Office might fall into the hands of men of inferior abilities, whose Parliamentary career had been more or less unsuccessful. He desired to see the most capable men selected; but he did not wish, whenever a change of Ministry took place, to see the government of Scotland thrown down as a prey to be scrambled for by a clique of hungry provincial politicians. He did not wish to see Scotland governed as a province; and the way to avoid that was to bring home to the Secretary of State the fact that he was responsible for Scotch as well as for English legislation; and that could be done more completely and effectually by placing in his Office a Gentleman thoroughly conversant with Scotch affairs than by the erection of a new Parliamentary Office, which might often be filled by a man who was not fit for it, nor for anything else, because the men who were fitted for it could not be got to take the place. He had thought it desirable to call the attention of the Government to this subject as one of importance; but, in the meanwhile, as Scotland was at present well represented in Parliament-in that House by the noble Duke (the Duke of Argyll), in the other by

the Lord Advocate and by the Home Secretary, who, if not a Scotchman, was a Scotch Member-the matter did not press.

THE DUKE OF ARGYLL said, he regretted the absence of his noble Friend the Chairman of the Commission (the Earl of Camperdown) who could have most fitly answered the Question. He (the Duke of Argyll) thought that the result of the inquiry had been to scatter to the winds nine-tenths of the accusations which had been brought against the present administration of Scotch affairs. The dissatisfaction prevailing among at least some Scotch Members had first attracted his notice in connection with the Scotch Education Bill of last Session. Their Lordships would remember the great anxiety-he might almost say unnatural amount of attention-which was bestowed on the clauses of that measure in this House; and he excited some surprise and, he feared, some indignation of noble Lords opposite by stating that those clauses were immaterial, and that almost any way in which four or five sensible Scotchmen could be brought together to superintend the education of the country would answer the purpose. During the discussion on the Bill he had remarked that certain Members of the House of Commons manifested dissatisfaction with the conduct of Scotch affairs, dwelling especially on the inefficiency, expensiveness, and irresponsibility of all Boards. He had not himself looked closely into the administration of these Boards; but, while thinking this dead run against the very name of a Board rather irrational, he was not able from full knowledge of the working of the system to rebut those complaints. In consequence of these allegations the Government referred the subject to a Commission, which was presided over by his noble Friend Lord Camperdown, who conducted the inquiry with great ability, and, he thought, with very great success. He subjected the complaining Members to a rigid crossexamination, and it was found that there existed no foundation whatever for their complaints. It was shown that the various branches of Scotch administration contrasted favourably with those of England and Ireland. Under these circumstances, the Government had little to do but to let well alone. Lord Advocates might not always, owing to their The Earl of Airlie

private practice, be as accessible to Scotch Members as might be wished; but this did not render it necessary to appoint a Chief Secretary for Scotland. similar to the Chief Secretary for Ireland. The legislative business of that country was very small, and most of the Bills were more or less connected with legal administration, in framing which the Law Officers of the Crown had necessarily to be consulted. When questions of general policy arose, such as education-although his learned Friend Lord Moncreiff, giving his great ability, and long, and, he might say, devoted, attention to the subject, took a very prominent part in framing the Education Bill-there was no necessity for measures of that kind to be entrusted to any new officer, as any Members of the Government connected with the country naturally directed attention to them. Ă Chief Secretary would not have enough proper business to occupy his time, and he would be likely to fill it up by meddling with things which he had better leave alone. His noble Friend had made a suggestion that evening well deserving consideration; and it had also been suggested that the Scotch Lord of the Treasury should have special charge of Scotch business in the House of Commons. These, however, were questions of arrangement which could easily be adjusted. His answer to his noble Friend's Question was, that the Government did not contemplate any serious change. One or two minor recommendations of the Commission, supposed to tend to economy, it had already been found impossible to carry out. It had, for instance, given a kind of half opinion that one Lunacy Commissioner would be sufficient; but the Government, after full consideration, had found it essential to fill up a vacancy which recently occurred in that Board, in order to avoid throwing undue labour and responsibility on Sir James Coxe, a most able, energetic, and conscientious man, whose time was already fully occupied. The duties of his own Department had prevented him (the Duke of Argyll) looking into the details of the matter; but he could assure his noble Friend that no serious change was contemplated.

SINGAPORE-JUDICIAL INDEPEN

DENCE.-PETITION.

*

EARL GREY: My Lords, the Petition which I have to present is well entitled to your Lordships' attention, both on account of the persons by whom it is signed and of the subject to which it relates. It is signed by a very large proportion of the principal inhabitants of Singapore of all classes, landowners, merchants, and others, and its object is to complain of a change in the tenure by which the Judges hold their offices since the Colony has come under the direct administration of the Crown by which it is said that their independence has been seriously impaired. Now, it is certainly of the utmost importance not only that justice should be fairly administered in our Colonies, but also that there should be perfect confidence in the independence of the Judges to whom its administration is entrusted, and I am afraid that this Petition, and the information supplied to me by those who have placed it in my hands, clearly show that at this moment no such confidence exists among the inhabitants of the Straits Settlements. But though this is greatly to be regretted, I observe with satisfaction that no complaint of any specific evil that has actually arisen is to be found either in the Petition or in any of the documents by which it is supported. It is not represented to me that the Judges have been unduly influenced in any of their decisions by the Executive Government, that any abuse has yet occurred, or that any want of proper independence has been shown in the conduct of the Chief Justice. I do not observe any complaint of this sort; but what is complained of is, that principles have been asserted and rules laid down which threaten the independence of the Judges, and may lead to evil hereafter. Much alarm of this kind undoubtedly prevails; but it appears to me to have been caused not by anything really faulty in the existing arrangement as to the tenure of office by the Judges, but by a misapprehension on the part of the inhabitants, produced by what I must regard as very indiscreet expressions used by the Governor in a despatch that has been published. I come to this conclusion, because I find that the people of Singapore do not complain of the Judges being removable by the Secretary of State, since a similar

| power existed when Singapore was under the Indian Government; but what they feel to be a grievance, is that the Governor should have the power of suspending a Judge from his office. Now, if the Governor were invested with an arbitrary power of suspending a Judge at his own pleasure and discretion, I should entirely agree with the petitioners as to the great abuses to which it might lead; but this is not the case. The petitioners overlook the fact that, according to the established practice of our Colonial Service, the Governor is not at liberty to suspend a Judge, except for grave misconduct, and misconduct of such a character that serious public inconvenience would arise from allowing him to continue in the discharge of his duty during the time required for a reference to the Secretary of State. This is the rule that used to be enforced, and I believe that this rule remains unchanged. Nor is this all. When a Judge is suspended by a Governor, the suspension ought never to be confirmed without an inquiry. When I had the honour of holding the seals of the Colonial Department, it was once or twice my painful duty to have to decide on the removal of a Judge, but I never took that step until the charge against the Judge had undergone a careful examination by a Committee of the Privy Council, to which men of high professional eminence were summoned, and before which the Judge had an opportunity of being heard by counsel in his defence. Without such an inquiry no Judge was removed, and it was perfectly well understood that if a Governor suspended a Judge, and subsequent inquiry showed the suspension to have been on insufficient grounds-still more, if it appeared that the Governor had acted from any improper motive, or from a tyrannical disposition-it was not the removal of the Judge, but the recall of the Governor that would follow. A Governor, therefore, exercises the power of suspension under the gravest responsibility, and with the full knowledge of the results which will follow from its abuse. I believe that the origin of this power-which is a very old one in our Colonial practice-was this. In former times, when communication between England and our distant Colonies was much more difficult than at present, more than one case arose in which that disposition to quarrel-which I fear dis

tinguishes small societies) led to disputes | his judgments have been wrong. There between Governors and Judges, and is, as I have said, another mode of bringproduced a state of things in some in- ing wrong judgments under review. The stances perfectly intolerable. Communi- alarm of the inhabitants of Singapore cation with the Government at home has been increased by another circumbeing slow and uncertain, it was neces- stance. The passage in the Governor's sary to avert such inconvenience by vesting despatch to which I have taken objecin the Governor the power of suspending tion has been coupled with another desthe Judges as well as the other officers patch addressed by the late Secretary of of his Government. In the present state State for the Colonies (the Duke of of the world, and with the present faci- Buckingham), in which he lays down the lities for communication, such a power rule that the official members of the is less necessary than it was. But if the Legislative Council are bound to support necessity for it is less, so also is there the Governor by their votes. So far as less danger of its being abused, because regards persons holding offices connected a reference to the Secretary of State can with the Executive Government, this now be so promptly made, that I do not rule is, I think, proper and necessary. think any Governor would venture rashly It would lead to absolute anarchy, and to suspend a Judge on insufficient would render it impossible for the gogrounds. Let me add that no honest vernment of the Colonies to be carried error of judgment on the Bench would on, if the Governor could not reckon on ever for a moment be considered a suffi- being supported in his measures by his cient cause for the suspension of a Judge. subordinate officers. They are at liberty Such an error of judgment affords mat- to lay their opinions fully and freely beter for an appeal to the Judicial Com- fore him, and state to him the objections mittee of the Privy Council-not a ground they may see to any of his measures; for suspending a Judge. Conduct that but in the last resort he must decide, would warrant his suspension must be and it is a wholesome and necessary rule conduct of a nature to interfere with the in a Colonial Government that its mempublic service; and I believe it has al- bers must support the Governor. But I ways been perfectly well understood that cannot think that the Duke of Buckingthe Governor has not the slightest right ham meant to apply this rule to the to endeavour to influence the Judge in Judges. A Judge stands in a very difthe performance of his judicial duties. ferent position to the members of the That principle I hold to be a cardinal Executive Government, and I do not see one, and I trust the noble Earl (Earl any difficulty or inconvenience in his Granville) will assure me that this is his being left at liberty, honestly and fairly, opinion also. If these rules are acted to give his vote in opposition to the Goupon, there can be no real danger to the vernor. Of course, his power must be independence of the Judges, and I think, exercised honestly, and it would be cause my Lords, that the apprehension which for complaint if he should systematically exists in Singapore has been mainly place himself in opposition to the Gocaused by what I have called an indis- vernment. My Lords, I am afraid that creet expression of the present Governor those who put this Petition into my of the Straits Settlements, who has said, hands will hardly be satisfied that I do in a despatch that has been published, not go more entirely with them in their that the Judges are liable to the control complaint. At the same time, when of the Executive, just like other members they placed it in my hands, I told them of the public service. This I hold to be how far I could go. I told them that I a mistake. It may be necessary in car- should state my opinion as to how far I rying on the government of a Colony for considered that their grievance could be the Governor to suspend a person hold- removed. Allow me to add that I do ing the office of Colonial Secretary, or think there is a degree of apprehension some similar office, for mere inefficiency existing in Singapore which it is very and inability to discharge his duties pro- desirable my noble Friend should take perly, because, otherwise, such difficulties measures to remove. I hope that in the might arise that the public business answer he will make to me this evening would come to a dead-lock; but he is not he will state his concurrence in the view entitled to take this course with respect I have taken-namely, that a Judge to a Judge merely because he thinks ought not to be disturbed in the posses

Earl Grey

sion of his office, except for some grave misconduct and after adequate inquiry. If he does so, I am hopeful that his explanation will go far to remove the existing apprehension. But I also trust he will go farther, and inform me that a despatch will be published in Singapore for the satisfaction of the public, and in which he will lay down, in such clear terms as cannot be misunderstood, what the rules are which regulate the conduct of the Government at home in these matters. My Lords, I will only add one word more. I believe that in these cases of dispute, which, in 99 cases out of 100, are of a personal character, there is some fault on both sides; and what is really wanted is, temper and a sincere desire to promote the public service. I believe that when these qualities exist, and when there is a good selection of men on whom high office in the Colonies is conferred, these difficulties do not arise. I believe, moreover, that for legal offices in our smaller Colonies, it is most desirable that men should be selected not from the narrow circle of the Colonial Bar, divided as that often is by party spirit and personal animosity, but from the larger and wider sphere of the English Bar, where men of honour, high character, and ability, may be obtained for service in the Colonies. No doubt appointments from the English Bar would involve adequate salaries, because men such as are wanted would not sacrifice their prospects at home without sufficient consideration; but, if I am not mistaken, the colonists would be ready to pay adequate salaries if good appointments were made. This is a matter to which I trust the attention of my noble Friend will be directed, and that it will not be lost sight of in any appointments that he has to make. My Lords, I beg to present the Petition of which I gave Notice.

The noble Earl then presented a Petition of landowners, merchants, and other inhabitants of Singapore, praying for greater security for judicial independence.

EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, I am extremely obliged to the noble Earl (Earl Grey) for having brought forward this subject, for reasons which I will state later. I have paid the greatest possible attention to every word he has said, and I believe I perfectly agree in every opinion he has expressed. My Lords, there are two points raised by my noble

Friend.

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which was sent to me, only one of these In the Petition, a copy of is referred to-it is a protest against the unconstitutional power given to the Governor to remove or suspend a Judge upon his own responsibility. The noble Earl has raised another point, which has regard to the position which a Chief Justice or Judge ought to hold in the Legislative Council. in the principle the noble Earl has laid I entirely agree down. I think it absolutely impossible for a Government to be carried on if the Members of the Executive were allowed to vote in opposition to the Governor. It is obvious that if that were permitted anarchy and confusion would result. I also agree with the exceptions stated by the noble Earl. The Judges are in a different position from the mere Executive, however distinguished they may be; for I quite agree that more freedom must be allowed to the Judges, partly because they are not connected with Executive office, and partly because they must have the greatest possible independence in their judicial functions. Yet it would be most unbecoming in a Judge or Chief Justice if they were found leading an Opposition, or committing themselves to anything like factious opposition with regard to the Government to be carried on; and I think it would not be creditable either to the Governor or the Chief Justice, although some difference of opinion may arise between them, if they did not avoid the scandal of very decided opposition. With regard to the other question-the irresponsibility of Judges-I thought it, both in principle and practice, so important that, desiring to strengthen, in every possible way, my position on this subject, I directed a Memorandum to be prepared, stating the facts and the argumitted to my noble Friend the Lord ments on both sides, which was transPresident of the Council, and I requested him to gather the opinion of those members of the Judicial Committee who had and transmit their opinion to me. great experience in matters of this sort, result was, that the Registrar of the Council drew up a very interesting Memorandum on the subject, some passages of which I should like to read to your Lordships, and the whole of which I shall lay on the Table as well worthy the attention of my noble Friend-and, indeed, of all who take an interest in

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