Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

He

General with £1,074, and £100 for dis- | half-pay must be withdrawn during such time as tinguished services-which he should be they hold such appointments," (Mr. Anderson,) sorry to interfere with-and £200 half-instead thereof. pay, making altogether £1,375; and an Assistant Adjutant General who received for acting in that capacity £568, in addition to his half-pay, and £100 for "mustering the guards"-whatever that might be. The next was a Deputy Assistant Adjutant General, whose halfpay was £173, but whose income was made up to £576; and there was yet another Assistant Adjutant General connected with the clothing department, who received £769. Then came a Deputy Adjutant General of Artillery, who received £1,535; an Assistant Adjutant General of Artillery, who received £855; and a Deputy Assistant Adjutant General of Artillery, who received £603. And once more in the Engineers, there were a Deputy Adjutant General and an Assistant Adjutant General, with proportionate salaries. Yet Lord Northbrook's Report said of these Artillery and Engineer Offices, they were little better than regimental orderly rooms. The list was still not exhausted, for there figured in the list a Quartermaster General, a Deputy, an Assistant, and a Deputy Assistant Quartermaster General, all with salaries mounting up in the way he had described. Surely, there were a great many of these that might be cut down. As to some of them, distinct recommendations had been made in the Report of Lord Northbrook's Committee, which stated that a much larger administrative Staff is employed in this country, in comparison with the regular and reserve forces than in any of the principal nations of Europe. He maintained that while gentlemen held these extremely well-paid appointments, the duties of which in many cases were very light, they ought not at the same time to be drawing half-pay. His Motion only dealt with a sum of £9,000, and as it contemplated the giving of six months' notice, it could make very little difference in the present financial year; but it would inaugurate a right principle to regulate future appointments.

COLONEL NORTH said, that nothing was easier than to get up in the House and move that gentlemen be deprived of a portion of their income. But the hon. Member who brought forward this Motion did not even know the A B C of the question which he was anxious to deal with. He had jumbled together the names and duties of the different officers in a most unaccountable fashion. began by calling his Royal Highness "the Commander-in-Chief," and founded a string of observations upon the name. But there was no such name in the British Army. His Royal Highness was the Field Marshal Commanding-in-Chief, and was paid accordingly. Again, he talked of Adjutants General, Quartermasters General, and ever so many other officers. Did he know a single thing about the duties they were called upon to discharge? Did the hon. Gentleman know the duties of the Adjutant General and the Quartermaster General? he know that the Adjutant General had to confer with his Royal Highness upon the discipline of the Army and the Quartermaster upon the movements of troops? The hon. Gentleman should make himself acquainted with the duties which these officers had to perform before he proposed to deprive them of their regimental and half-pay. Was Sir Hope Grant, for instance-an officer who had served with the greatest distinction-to be deprived of his emoluments on the Motion of an hon. Gentleman who had displayed the grossest ignorance of the service? He regretted that the time of the House should be taken up in this manner, and trusted that the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War would not listen for a moment to such a proposal as that now under consideration.

Did

COLONEL STUART KNOX said, he objected to the hon. Gentleman acting as jackal to the Government in this manner, and giving a hint to a Government who were reducing everything, that a reduction would be advisable in the salaries of officers who were not only distinguished for their services but who

had paid large sums for their commis- £527 more than would be paid to him if sions. It should not be forgotten that he did not undertake the duties which His Royal Highness, though in reality the he performs. On the same principle, Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief, the amount paid to Colonel Egerton, received only the pay of a General Commanding-in-Chief, and yet the right hon. Gentleman proposed that his pay should be still further reduced. No one but the hon. Gentleman who had brought forward this Motion would, he thought, contend that the services of his Royal Highness, whether in peace or in war, had not been of great advantage to this country. He trusted the right hon. MAJOR GENERAL SIR PERCY HERGentleman at the head of the War De-BERT said, he would remind the House partment would repudiate the proposals that a considerable portion of the salamade by the hon. Gentleman. ries mentioned in the Return included

who is a distinguished cavalry officer, would be £875, or about the same as received by the principal clerk in his office. I think I need say no more to show that it would be undesirable to agree to a Motion which would have the effect of depriving the country of the services of some of our most distinguished officers.

MR. CARDWELL: I hope, Sir, I the keep of horses, as well as largely shall be able to maintain my own ground increased expenditure in the form of without exhibiting any warmth or ex-house rent.

citing any warmth of feeling in others, for I believe I shall have no difficulty in satisfying the House that the Motion of

The

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

RESOLUTION.

the re-organization of the old Indian Army occupied much of the attention of the Legislature. A Commisssion was appointed to consider the subject; and, spite of the opinions of Lord Ellenborough and Sir John Lawrence, who strongly urged the retention of the Native Army, the Commission reported in 1869 by a large majority—

forces of the State as to sow the seeds and form

my hon. Friend is one to which it is un-ARMY-HORSE ARTILLERY IN INDIA. desirable that we should agree. effect of the Motion would be this-You would not be able to get for the offices MR. WALSH, in rising to call the at the Horse Guards those who had been attention of the House to the proposed distinguished for the services they had reliefs for the Royal Horse Artillery in rendered to their country, and who had India, said, that at the close of the gobeen appointed to the command of regi-vernment of the East India Company ments. Take the case of the Adjutant General, upon whom we rely for the maintenance of the discipline of the Army. In this Return it is stated that he receives £2,877 a year. I am not prepared to say, looking at the salaries which we vote, that you could give to the officer who is responsible for the discipline of the Army anything but a liberal salary. But the effect of my hon. Friend's Motion would be to reduce the Adjutant General's salary to £1,877. He would naturally consider that, as he already received £1,000 for the command of his regiment, the pay for the But the double service, although extinadditional labour which he performed guished in name, might still exist in would amount to £877 only, or some- fact, and he thought that nothing could thing like the salary of the chief clerk be more dangerous to the good feeling in his office. Upon reflection, I think which should exist than the power on my hon. Friend (Mr. Anderson) will con- the part of the military authorities to sider that such a course would be neither maintain invidious distinctions, and to wise policy nor real economy. Then act upon a system of favouritism. The take the case of Sir Hope Grant. That Royal Horse Artillery consisted of six distinguished officer receives £3,227. Of that sum he receives £1,350 from the command of his regiment, leaving £1,877 if the reduction proposed by my hon. Friend were carried out; in other words, that distinguished officer would receive VOL. CCI. [THIRD SERIES.]

"That nothing could be more unfortunate, not to say dangerous, than so to organize the armed the groundwork of professional jealousies and heartburnings, the inevitable result of a double system."

brigades. The A and B Brigades belonged to the old Royal service; the Brigades C, D, E, and F were the old Indian Artillery, which had been amalgamated with the former. The A Brigade, which belonged to the old

3 N

Royal Artillery, relieved the C Brigade man to the Secretary of State for War I in 1865, and now, according to the in the course of last Session; and were answer which the right hon. Gentleman it simply confined to that question he the Secretary of State for War had might have been excused if he tresgiven him towards the close of last Ses-passed longer on the time of the House sion, the B Brigade, which returned than was necessary to give a repetition from India in 1861, was not to be sent of the answer. But the hon. Gentle. out, though the first for foreign service, man now submitted the subject to the but the C Brigade, which, as he had House in a more formidable manner. stated, had returned in 1865, was to go He was surprised to hear the manner in out, on the ground that one of the old which the question had been brought Royal Artillery brigades must always before the House by the hon. Gentlebe in England. As four brigades must man, who was an old soldier, and he be in India, it was perfectly evident that regretted to hear the terms which the hon. if one of the old Royal Brigades was Member had used when speaking of the always to be in England, the old Royal Horse Guards. The hon. Member said Artillery must have a double quantity of the system was an organized system of home service compared with the old favouritism of the Horse Guards. But Indian Artillery, and, therefore, they this assertion could not be substantiated were not amalgamated upon those equal by facts. If it were true there would terms which were promised them at the have been a remonstrance made by the time. Could anything be more unjust officers connected with the brigade under that the officers and men of the one orders for India; but no such remonshould have double the home service of strance had been made, and he believed the officers and men of the other? In he was justified in stating that the feelthe C Brigade, which it was proposed to ing of those officers was adverse to the send out out of its turn, there were 700 Motion. Why, then, did the hon. Memmen who had enlisted imagining that ber bring forward his grievance? Had they should be on equal terms with the the hon. Member been influenced by one men of the Royal Artillery. According of those officers? If so, was he not to the Regulations of the War Office he trenching very much on the opinion they made out that the F Brigade would not had always held that matters of military be relieved until 1881. Now, he would discipline should not be debated in that ask how many of those officers who gave House? The facts were these-It was up their retiring fund and other privi- arranged at first that the general serleges in 1861 would reap in 1881 the vice of brigades should be confined to benefit of their amalgamation with the 10 years in India and five years at Royal Artillery? Hardly one. He could home. But afterwards, for reasons which not believe the House would allow military men would understand, it was such unfair treatment of men to whom determined that, as there were only two we owed so much for the preservation of brigades of the old Royal Artillery, it our Indian Empire. would not be right that the two should be in India at the same time, until it was perfectly certain that the new system would work well, but that one of those brigades should remain in England. In 1864 that arrangement was made by the Commander-in-Chief, in consultation with the Secretary of State for War and the Secretary of State for India. At first the Overland Route was not open, and the reliefs were made by half brigades. In 1865 half a brigade of the old English Royal Artillery was sent to India, and the same year half an Indian brigade came home and the remaining half brigade of the old Eng lish Artillery went out. The old brigade had only served five years. When the Overland Route was opened the autho

Amendment proposed,

To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "in the opinion of this House, strict impartiality in the selection for Indian service should be ob

served between that portion of the Royal Ar-
tillery which was formerly in the East India
Company's Service, and that which was origin-
ally Royal Artillery,"-(Mr. Walsh,)
-instead thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

CAPTAIN VIVIAN said, the Motion of the hon. Gentleman was a repetition, in another form, of a Question which had been addressed by the hon. Gentle

Mr. Walsh