deputies to act in their unavoidable absence. He concurred in thinking that much good resulted from private Members bringing in Bills on Irish subjects and urging them on the attention of the Government. The question of Union rating and other important matters connected with Ireland were pressing for consideration, and yet they had not been taken up by the Government.

system of grand jury laws in Ireland with a view to their amendment. The Government would be prepared to introduce a measure conceived in that spirit as early as possible next Session; and, therefore, there could be no good reason for hurrying forward the present Bill, which was so faulty in all its details that it could not be passed through Committee without being turned into an entirely new measure.

COLONEL STUART KNOX said, that if the faultiness of its details was a good ground for throwing out a measure, the Irish Land Bill, almost every line of which had to be amended, would certainly have very little claim to their fa

MR. MATTHEWS said, he should support the second reading of the Bill. There was conclusive evidence in favour of paying coroners by salary and not by fees. Coroners were the only public prosecutors we had, and they ought not to be paid by fluctuating fees, which were grossly inadequate. The system of pay-vour. ment by fees tempted a coroner to hold unnecessary inquests to swell his income. But in making the change regard must be had to the amount realized by fees. The quinquennial average was adopted in England. He thought the sum fixed in the Bill was not unreasonable. He approved of the principle of superannuation; it was the best possible economy, and the most graceful way of getting rid of an officer appointed for life, who was unable from age or infirmities to efficiently discharge his duties.

He did not himself approve all the provisions of this Bill. He objected to the appointment of deputies, who were almost invariably made to do the work of the coroners themselves. He was also of the opinion that the ratepayers should have the power of saying whether pensions were to be granted. But he hoped his hon. Friend (Mr. Vance) would go to a Division, and he should support the second reading of the Bill.

THE O'CONOR DON said, he thought the Government were adopting a wise Course in declining to deal with the grand jury system of Ireland piecemeal, or otherwise than in a comprehensive and complete manner. This subject should be dealt with in a Bill embracing the whole of the grand jury system, and brought in by the Government. It must be satisfactory to the Irish people that, as a consequence of the small number of inquests in Ireland, the coroners there could not live on their fees, but had to ask for a salary.

THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. Dowse) said, he thought the paucity of his right hon. and learned Friend (Dr. Ball's) arguments in favour of the Motion told strongly against it. His right hon. Friend supported the second reading of the Bill because it would have a stimulating effect on the Government; in other words, they were asked to read the second time a Bill full of defects in order to get the Government to bring in a better one. That was not a principle on MR. DELAHUNTY said, he would which the House should avowedly pro- support the second reading of the Bill ceed; they ought not, unless they ap- on the ground that the hon. Gentleman proved its principle, to read a bad Bill (The O'Conor Don) opposed it. The the second time merely to stimulate Bill was a step in the right direction. somebody else to introduce a good Bill. If the whole of Ireland were polled The hon. Member for Cork (Mr. Downing) there would be as large a majority for complained that they had not sufficient the principle of this Bill as there had Irish business before them this Session; been the other day for Napoleon in but there would be no use in the Go- France. In Ireland coroners could not vernment undertaking a measure of that accept land; in England they could. In kind this year, because it would be im- Ireland coroners could not appoint depossible for them to deal with the ques-puties; in England they could. He was tion in the comprehensive manner that was desirable. The subject could not be satisfactorily treated piecemeal; but must be regarded as part of a general

for assimilating the law of both countries. The Irish Government was a thing which ought not to exist at all, because it was nothing but a sham.

The House divided :-Ayes 98; Noes enclosure. The Bill did not extend to 172: Majority 74.

Main Question, as amended, put, and managed with discretion estates on which agreed to.

in such a manner as to carry out the views they all had at heart, although it would be preferable if the Government were to bring in a measure dealing with the subject in a comprehensive manner.

The real question now before the House was, whether they would affirm the principle of the Bill, which was intended to prevent the inhabitants of towns being deprived of the enjoyment of waste grounds which they had possessed from MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN time immemorial. The Bill proposed to said, that if it was the general custom of provide a sort of local government for persons representing a Government on neglected commons, under which they such occasions as the present, to enwould be properly drained and pre-deavour to please all parties, he feared served, for the enjoyment of the public that he was about to deviate from that and preventing disorderly conduct. The custom, inasmuch as he must differ in Act of 1845 had not operated for the some respects from all three of the hon. public advantage, but had merely con- Members who had already addressed the tributed to the success of the attempts House. He would first deal with the that had been made to deprive the pub-proposal of the hon. Member for Chiplic of the enjoyment of the open places penham (Mr. Goldney), that this Bill in the neighbourhood of towns. When should be referred to a Select Committee. a barren sand or accumulation of gravel became, from its growing proximity to an increasing town, like a mine of gold, the persons interested in the land, as lord of the manor and as commoners, were interested in getting the space enclosed; though one object of the Inclosure Acts was to preserve such places for public recreation. It had become absolutely necessary that the crowded centres of civilization should have open places in their vicinity, to which the poor might go for exercise and recreation, without the fear of being warned off as trespassers.

He would say at once that he thought the matter had gone beyond the point at which reference to a Select Committee might have been necessary or desirable, and that, in his opinion, the House was quite competent to decide the question for itself. Then he must also say that he could not agree to the Amendment of his hon. Friend the Member for York (Mr. J. Lowther), to throw out the Bill upon the second reading. There were several reasons why he should object to such a course: one reason was his unwillingness to treat with disrespect a Bill upon this subject which proceeded MR. GOLDNEY said, the principles from a Gentleman of so much experience, stated by the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. and one whose opinion upon these matCowper-Temple) were doubtless grati- ters was so much entitled to respect as fying to the entire House, but the diffi- his right hon. Friend, and a still more culty in this case was that the Bill which important reason was that, so far as he he supported did not carry those prin- understood the principle of the Bill, he ciples into effect. The Bill, in the first was prepared, on the part of the Goplace, defined what commons were, but vernment, to give his vote in favour of the scheme and the purport of the Bill that principle at the present stage of were not defined in any way. The Bill the measure. He understood the main merely said that a scheme might be pre-principle of the Bill to be this-that Parpared by the inhabitants of a district with respect to the common; but it did not say anything as to what the character of the scheme should be. The Bill offered no security for the permanence of the proposed local government of the commons affected by it. In the case of the ratepayers refusing to pay for the management of the land, it would be left totally without management, and its condition would be far worse than it was under the present law. If the House assented to the second reading of the Bill, he would move that it should be referred to a Select Committee, with a view to its being altered and improved

liament believed that commons in the vicinity of towns and crowded districts should be dealt with in some manner different from that in which ordinary rural enclosures were treated, that the feelings and interests of the inhabitants of such localities should be consulted, and that legislative interference should prevent their being deprived of the open spaces from which they derived so much advantage. He could not help subscribing most heartily to such a proposition. He was prepared to state, on the part of the Government, that they would consider this question of public rights in land liable to enclosure in a broad and com

prehensive spirit, and as an indication of His right hon. Friend had alluded to the this intention he would support the applications for "schemes" which had second reading. At the same time, he been made under that Act. Well, eight was bound to tell his right hon. Friend such applications had been made; but that he should be sorry to see the de-seven of them had at present not been tails of his Bill become law, inasmuch as arranged, in consequence of disputes and he found much of them that was ob- local differences, and as the eighth had jectionable. In the first place, this Bill only recently received sanction, it was would positively prevent the enclosure impossible to judge accurately as to the of any suburban commons. But although good or ill-working of the Bill. But one he quite agreed that, as a rule, these en- witness-Mr. Scott-before the general closures should be avoided and prevented, Enclosure Committee last year stated it by no means followed that this rule that he thought the objection made by was without exception, and its operation one of the Enclosure Commissioners to might in many cases be attended with this Act, that there had only been seven great inconvenience. Take the case of applications under it, was "its best rethe town of Nottingham. There was a commendation." That was the key to time-not long ago-when the extension much of the support given to the present of that town was prevented by the im- Bill-that people thought it would prepossibility of acquiring land for building vent these enclosures altogether, and this purposes. Until the commons around was further than he (Mr. Knatchbullthe town were enclosed, and rights of Hugessen) was prepared to go. He reseveralty established, no one of course gretted very much that the lateness of would venture to build, because whilst the hour at which he had introduced the common rights existed, the title of no Government Enclosure Bill the other individual to any particular spot of night had prevented him from making ground could be secured. The conse- any statement upon the subject; but he quence was that the poorer classes, who now proposed to briefly state the points wished to acquire cottages near the town, in that Bill which would bear upon the could not do so, but were driven into the measure then under discussion, and to rural districts, far from their work, and sketch out the alternative plan which he thus much inconvenience was occasioned. would prefer to that of his right hon. There were other towns also-Stamford Friend. The Government Bill was based was a case in point-to which the same upon this idea and proposition-that if observations would apply. The commons lords of manors and others, being_deround Stamford were actually in one of sirous to enclose commons, came to Parthe ordinary Inclosure Bills which had liament in order to obtain a cheap and been presented by the Commissioners secure title and greater facilities of enduring the present year, and public in- closure, they should, in return for such convenience would probably occur if en- advantages received from Parliament, closure was absolutely refused. For this give something to the public of which and other reasons, therefore, he thought Parliament was the representativeit contrary to sound policy and to the in- therefore Government proposed that interests of the poorer classes themselves stead of leaving it to the discretion of the to lay down such an absolute rule against Enclosure Commissioners, whether allotenclosures as that which appeared to be ments should be given to the labouring contemplated by his right hon. Friend. poor for recreation ground, one or both Moreover, he was by no means sure that should be compulsorily given in every case the Metropolitan Commons Act-of which of enclosure, and a certain specified prothis Bill was an extension-had had suf- portion of the lands about to be enclosed ficient trial since its passing in 1866 to set aside for this purpose. The Governadmit of its wider application. The Se- ment, moreover, would propose that in lect Committee which sat upon this sub- the case of commonable lands, which, as ject last year reported in these words distinguished from common lands, were not now subject to public allotments, it should be enacted that, for the future, if any public rights had been exercised over any part of these lands, enclosure should be contingent upon either the preservation of those rights, or the grant

"Sufficient time has not elapsed since the passing of the Metropolitan Commons Act to enable such a fair judgment of its working to be formed as would justify your Committee in recommending the application of its provisions to a wider area than that to which it at present applies."

Mr. Knatchbull-Hugessen