where conviction of the offenders does not follow, I must, at the same time, remind the House that the effect produced by this increase of the detective force has been considerable. The House would be misled if it allowed its attention to be exclusively directed to such of these larger offences as remain unpunished. I stated the other day that since the employment of these detectives the number of the graver offences had diminished by one-tenth, a considerable reduction, when it is borne in mind that that reduction has been effected upon 7,000 offences. If, however, we limit the inquiry to burglaries and cases of housebreaking within certain hours of darkness, we shall find that a comparison with the previous six months shows a reduction of one-fifth, and that reduction has been accomplished by a force which is still in its infancy. I have no doubt myself that a force which has already done so much will still do more. It may from time to time be necessary to increase its numbers; but, as we are now trying an experiment, I do not think that any great addition can be made until, at all events, we have had an opportunity of thoroughly testing its suc cess. DUPLICATE WORKS IN THE BRITISH MUSEUM.-QUESTION. MR. C. DALRYMPLE said, he would beg to ask the right hon. Member for the University of Cambridge, Whether, since by the Copyright Act all publishers in the United Kingdom are bound to furnish to the British Museum a copy of every book, and of every new edition of a book published by them, and since as long ago as 1848 Mr. Panizzi reckoned the duplicates alone in the Museum at 50,000 volumes, it might not be possible, in the opinion of the Trustees, that such duplicates should be distributed, under proper regulations, so as to form the nucleus of public free libraries, or to supplement deficient libraries; and, whether by this means the British Museum might not be judiciously relieved of its superabundant books, without impairing the efficiency of the collection? MR. SPENCER WALPOLE said, that before replying to the hon. Member, he must correct two inaccuracies which occurred in his Question. It was not necessary, under the Copyright Act, to send to YOL. CCI. [THIRD SERIES.] the British Museum a copy of every new edition, but only of such editions as contained alterations. The evidence of Mr. Panizzi was that the number of duplicates was 10,000, and not 50,000, as stated. Supposing that the duplicates could be parted with, he admitted that it would be very useful to apply them to the purpose suggested by the hon. Member; but it was necessary to explain that there were three classes of duplicates in the Museum. In the first place, there were books which were supposed to be duplicates, but which were variations of and additions to the original work. In a national institution like the British Museum it was of great importance that such editions should be preserved, partly for the purpose of showing what changes took place in the author's thoughts, or mode of dealing with his subject, and partly to illustrate literary, historical, and scientific questions with reference to the opinions formerly entertained by the author. These editions were not in fact duplicates, and the House would see that it was not desirable to part with them. The second class comprised real duplicates of works which were also to be found in the King's and the Grenville Libraries. But the copies in these libraries were of a much finer character, some being printed on vellum, and others having manuscript notes and annotations, so that the duplicates were required for the use of ordinary readers, in order to preserve the more valuable copies from unnecessary risk of injury. The books in the third class were also duplicates; but it was difficult to say what limit ought to be put to them, inasmuch as they were dictionaries, encyclopædias, modern histories, and works of great interest, in daily use by the students-from 200 to 300-in the Library. He thought the House would see from these facts that the question could not be easily dealt with. There had been occasions in the history of the Museum when some of these duplicates had been sold for small sums; but it was evident that the utmost care should be exercised in the matter, because of the works so disposed of within the last 20 years it had been necessary to re-purchase two at an immense price. One of these books was a work with Henry the Eighth's comments upon an ecclesiastical treatise of his time, which had escaped the keeper's 2 B IRELAND-PRIMARY EDUCATION. QUESTION. the present time will be laid upon the Table of the House before the further consideration of the Elementary Education Bill? notice; and it was bought back for 30 | mated expenditure on the whole would not guineas. The other was a copy of Bacon's exceed £5,600, whereas such expenditure Advancement of Learning with the Apo- has reached the sum of above £14,000, thegms; there being some additions and the Commission has failed to Rethereto in the handwriting of Charles port; and, if so, when the termination the First. This work the Trustees were of its existence may be hoped for; wheobliged to re-purchase for even a larger ther it is the fact that the Commission sum than the one he had mentioned. has agreed to recommend the abolition These were negligences of bygone days. of the National System of Mixed EducaHe did not say that there were not some tion in Ireland; and, whether the produplicates which, under proper regula-ceedings of the Commission up to the tions, might be parted with; but the Trustees would require to have absolute power given to them by Parliament to enable them to do so; and if such power MR. GLADSTONE: With regard, was given, he hoped the House would Sir, to the first portion of my hon. take care that it should only be exercised Friend's Question, I believe he is quite under the strictest regulations. Under correct in the recital he has made with rethese circumstances, he could not give spect to the time which the inquiries of the the hon. Member a more favourable an- Commissioners were originally expected swer; and he thought that more con- to occupy. But upon application that sideration should be given to the sub-time has been prolonged more than once; ject before anything was done in first by the Home Office, and afterwards matter. by the Treasury, and for reasons which appeared to be very satisfactory. However, it is true that the Commission has taken a very much longer time than was expected. With regard to the second. branch of the Question, I am not aware that the Commission has certified any portion of its proceedings. It ceased to take evidence a considerable time ago, and I apprehend I may so far meet the desire signified in the Question by saying that its sittings are at an end. third part of the Question refers to the expenditure of the Commission, and I believe I may say that all the hon. Mem ber's figures are correct. Whether they contain the whole case is another matter, and, of course, it would be idle for me to attempt to answer the Question as to the various explanations of which those items may be susceptible. But if my hon. Friend likes to move for a Return of the expenditure connected with the Commission, he will, of course, be able to obtain it, with all explanations that may be held to be requisite. The time for doing that would be very shortlywithin, I think, a fortnight or three weeks from this time. Then with regard to the fourth portion of the Question, which asks whether the Commissioners had agreed to recommend the abolition of the national system of mixed education in Ireland, I may say that neither I nor Her Majesty's Government are cognizant of the recommendations of the Commission. The hon. Member's fifth MR. VERNON HARCOURT said, he would beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he can inform the House what has become of the Royal Commission, appointed in January 1868, to inquire into the condition of Primary Education in Ireland, and which was directed by Her Majesty "To certify to Her from time to time their several proceedings as the same should be completed; and within the space of fourteen months to certify to Her the whole of their proceedings;" whether the Commission in question, after the lapse of double the period so prescribed, has certified to Her Majesty the whole or any part of its proceedings; whether it is still sitting; and when it ceased to take evidence; whether it is true that, the original Grant for the Commission having been taken at £1,400, the actual expenditure for the year ending March 1869 was £8,905 (an excess of £7,505, which is explained in the Appropriation Accounts as due to "two paid secretaries and a considerable increase of the clerical staff"), with a further estimated expenditure since that date of £5,450; whether when the Vote was taken for the Commission in 1869, it was stated in the Estimates that the Commissioners expected to complete their Report in 1869, and that the actual and estiMr. Spencer Walpole The Question, is whether the proceedings of been discontinued; and, whether he does the Commission will be laid on the not think it desirable that all Papers Table of the House before further con- connected with recent occurrences in sideration of the Elementary Education Greece should be also circulated in EngBill? I cannot compare those two inci- lish? dents accurately, because I cannot state positively the time for the one or the other. But I hope that in the second week in June, speaking generally, or thereabouts, we may be able to go on with the Committee on the Education Bill. With respect to the Report of the Commission, I am rather sanguine that it will be laid on the Table before that time; for an assurance has been conveyed to the Government from the highest authorities that the Report will be ready for presentation to Her Majesty by the 1st of June. Therefore I hope that immediately after the Whitsuntide Recess it will be laid upon the Table. Whether all the evidence will be also ready at that time I am not able to say. MR. OTWAY said, that all documents in foreign languages when published by the Foreign Office were, as a general rule, translated into English, and there was no desire to depart from that ancient practice. But with regard to certain recent Papers, taking into account the interest which the House and the country felt in the transactions to which they referred, the Foreign Office felt desirous to communicate them with the least possible delay. On many occasions, therefore, they had delivered those Papers to Members within 20 hours of the time when they had been received at the Foreign Office. Besides, the clerks in the Foreign Office would not have been numerous enough to translate all these Papers and accomplish the other WEST COAST OF AFRICA-CASE OF MR. Work they had to do. It had, therefore, HUGGINS.-QUESTION. SIR JOHN GRAY said, he wished ask the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, Whether he has any objection to lay upon the Table a Copy of the Judgment delivered by His Excellency the Governor of the West Coast of Africa, relative to the sentence passed by Mr. Huggins, one of the Judges of that Colony, on certain of the Natives? MR. MONSELL said, in reply, that no formal judgment in the case of Mr, Huggins had been delivered by the Governor of the West Coast of Africa; but when his Excellency was in this country in August last, he was consulted on the matter, and expressed an opinion that Mr. Huggins was free from blame. An Ordinance had been passed to prevent any misconstruction of the law in future, so that no further inconvenience would arise. He (Mr. Monsell) did not think it necessary to produce the letter written by the Governor; but he should be happy to show it to the hon. Member. happened that two or three Papers were published in French. With that exception, all other Papers had been, and would continue to be, translated into English. THE POST OFFICE AND THE NAVY, QUESTION. LORD HENRY SCOTT said, he would beg to ask the Postmaster General, Whether he has made any representation to the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty with regard to the privilege. hitherto accorded to the Officers of Her Majesty's Navy while serving on Foreign Stations, which enabled them both to receive Letters from and to send Letters to their relatives and friends at a reduced rate of postage, which privilege has lately been withdrawn; and, if any representation has been so made, if he would state the grounds upon which it was made? THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON replied, that there had been no communication between his Department and The PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS IN FOREIGN the Admiralty on this subject. LANGUAGES.-QUESTION. MR. PEEK said, he wished to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, For what reason the old practice of giving translations of all Parliamentary Papers in foreign languages has change referred to was made in consequence of a decision of the Treasury. If the noble Lord desired further information on the subject, he should be happy to afford it. CAB REGULATIONS.-QUESTION. MR. MONTAGUE GUEST said, he LIGHTHOUSE DUES.-QUESTION. MR. STEVENSON said, he wished would beg to ask the Secretary of State to ask the Vice President of the Board for the Home Department, Whether it of Trade, Whether it is intended to is the intention of Her Majesty's Go-give to Sailing Ships as well as Steamvernment to make any alteration in the existing Cab Regulations? ers the benefit of the proposed reductions of Lighthouse Dues; and what opportunities the owners of Sailing Ships will have of representing their claims in the matter before the Order in Council is made to give effect to the proposed reduction ? House. IRISH LAND BILL-[BILL 29.] (In the Committee.) Part III. Advances by and Powers of Board. Clause 39 (Advances to landlords for compensation for improvements). MR. BRUCE said, in reply, that the improved condition of cabs was not so much a matter of cab regulation as of inspection by the police. He had no immediate intention of altering the cab regulations; but it was proposed, be- MR. SHAW LEFEVRE, in reply, fore the close of the Session, to bring in said, the reductions would apply to saila Bill to consolidate the seven or eight ing vessels as well as to steamers. The existing Acts as to cabs, and the House Order in Council would be completed in would then have an opportunity of mak- the course of a few days, and a copy of ing any change in the regulations which it would be laid on the Table of the it might deem proper. All, or nearly all, the regulations objected to were regulations which had been in force for the last 17 years, and which he believed had worked without any practical inconvenience to the public; and for the last three months he was not aware of any complaint having been made-he meant ever since the regulations had been really understood-or of there having been any difficulty in enforcing them before the police magistrates. One change it was proposed to make on the 1st of Junenamely, that, instead of being presented for inspection as heretofore in January, the cabs should be presented for inspection on the 1st of June, and then it would be the duty of the Commissioners of Police to make a searching inquiry into the state of all the cabs, and reject those which were not deemed satisfactory. That, he hoped, would lead to a considerable improvement; and an opportunity would be taken, now that the cab charges per mile and per hour had been fixed, to see that they were properly exhibited outside the vehicles. Another change, recommended by his hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Mr. Eykyn), would be made-namely, to enable the numbers of Hansom cabs, which could now be seen from one side only, to be seen as easily as the numbers attached to the back of four-wheeled cabs could be. With those exceptions, he proposed to make no alterations until the introduction of the general Bill on the subject. SIR JOHN HAY said, he would beg to ask whether the inspection of cabs on the 1st of June would be made before or after the Derby? Amendment proposed, in page 20, line 34, before "board" to insertCommissioners of Public Works in Ireland, in this Act referred to as the." (Mr. Dowse.) MR. SCLATER BOOTH said, he wished to ask whether the Government had formed any estimate of the sum that would be required to be placed at the disposal of the Board of Works in Ireland for the purposes contemplated by the Bill? The right hon. Gentleman opposite had referred to a sum of £1,000,000 as a preliminary amount only. MR. GLADSTONE said, they must reserve to Parliament the ultimate decision of the question-in case they found a disposition in Ireland to act very extensively on those provisions-how far it would be wise to go in that direction. On the other hand, they did not wish to convey to the people of Ireland that £1,000,000 was the only sum that would be disposable for those objects. There was so much which was experimental in those provisions that it would be desirable at first to provide a moderate sum to meet any early demand that might or the improvement of existing farm arise, after which the matter could again houses, buildings, and out-offices, and be brought before Parliament with im- for the efficient drainage of the land, proved means of forming a judgment the sum not to exceed £200 for every upon it. The Board of Works in Ire- £30 of annual value. There were no land was subordinate to the Treasury, doubt already powers to make such adwhose duty it would be to see that no vances to landlords for these purposes, engagement was entered into by the but they were very much hampered by Board of Works on its own responsi- regulations which had been made by the bility, apart from the sanction of the Board of Works, so that since 1847 the higher Department of the Government. number of applications under the existing Act were only 5,523. Amendment agreed to. MR. SYNAN said, he would propose to leave out £6 108., and insert £5 as the annual rate of payment in respect of the proposed advances, increasing the time of payment from 22 to 35 years as in other cases of advances of public money in Ireland under 29 & 30 Vict. c. 40, p. 6. He, therefore, moved in page 20, lines 39 and 40, to leave out "six pounds ten shillings" and insert "five pounds." MR. GLADSTONE said, it had been suggested that there should be different rates under different clauses of this Bill; but it should be borne in mind that they had already provided in one clause for a rate of £7 18. 8d., and in another for a rate of £6 10s. The most important class of advances were those which were to be made to the tenants, for as to the landlords, who were of course capitalists, it was comparatively unimportant whether the advances were repayable in 22 or 35 years; but it was exceedingly important in the case of tenants. What he proposed was, that they should for the present leave the figures as they were in the clause, until upon Clause 41 they had ascertained the opinion of the Committee in reference to the tenant question, whether it was desirable that the advances should be repaid in 22 years or 35 years. They could then also ascertain the general feeling as to advances to landlords, in reference to whom the Government would be sorry to act harshly or illiberally. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. not upon MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE said, he must object to the Amendment that this was not the clause on which to its merits, but upon the ground propose such an Amendment, and that, the Bill with additional provisions, the moreover, it was undesirable to encumber Government having undertaken enough in the Bill as it stood. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 41 (Advances to tenants for purchase of holdings). MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE said, he would beg to move in page 21, line 19, after "board" to insert" if they are satisfied with the security," so that the Board should have power to consider the value of the security offered. MR. CORRANCE: Sir, before this Amendment of the right hon. Gentleman is put, I must venture to remark that in these words- namely, that if the Government are satisfied with the security, they shall make the advance, lies the whole question. Ought they to be satisfied? And with what? To this, before this scheme gain the assent of this House, I must be permitted in some stage or other to express my most emphatic dissent. Up to this time, in the character, as the hon. Member for Waterford has called it of an enlightened agriculturist and there is no character I would, if I could do so justly, more gladly accept I have Clause, as amended, agreed to, and body in Ireland, from my own point of ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 40 (Advances to landlords for improvement of waste lands). SIR FREDERICK W. HEYGATE said, he would propose an Amendment, to the effect that advances might be made to landlords and tenants jointly, or to tenants, with the written consent of the landlord, for the erection of new steadily advocated the interests of that view at least. But in the measure we now discuss, I fear I may find myself in opposition to Irish landlords, and, possibly, Irish tenants as well; and it must be as an Englishman, with no pretension to enlightenment, that I must review this case. To understand it a very little enlightenment will suffice. Through this clause we ascertain the promising [Committee-Clause 41. |