committee themselves, the presumption was, that the produce of the revenue would not be adequate to the payment of the interest of the national debt; and that in order to pay the interest, recourse must be had to borrowing. As matters now stood, parliament would separate without having made any arrangement for the payment of the interest of the national debt. He had now generally stated the topics embraced in his resolutions; and whatever inaccuracies might have crept into them, he rejoiced that they had produced the effect of inducing the honourable gentleman opposite to apply his talents to this subject; and he hoped that honourable gentleman would continue annually to produce resolutions of the same nature with those which he had now laid before the house. If this were done, it would enable them to go on intelligibly from year to year, He believed that no country was ever in such a state as we now were. That the national credit should be improving, and the price of stocks increasing, at the very same time when the revenue was falling off from hour to hour, seemed most extraordinary. The price of stocks was higher now than when the revenue was daily increasing at such a rate, that the exchequer was hardly able to contain it. He did not by any means impute blame to the right honourable gentleman opposite for issuing exchequer bills, although they certainly had been issued to an extraordinary amount. What was the amount of exchequer bills which could really be borne by the market could not be very exactly stated. But the mode pursued by government in setting a premium on them he understood to be thisthey fixed a premium, below which they said they would not sell them,

and if they did get them sold at that premium, they could have the money in the meantime from the bank. The natural consequence of this was to leave us at the mercy of the bank. Next year there would be a great trial of strength between government and the bank, for then cash payments were to be resumed; then would be 17,000,0001, exchequer bills outstanding; it was im possible that the bank could make issues to such amount in specie as it had done in notes. The house had lately heard that the distress in the country was at the highest pitchthat every one wished to borrow, and no one was able to lend. All this, however, which was then denied, was now adduced as a proof of the prosperous state of the country. Trade of every kind was in a state of complete stagnation; and the merchant having no other way to dispose of his capital, laid it out in the money market, and bought an exchequer bill because he could buy nothing else. This system was carried on to the utmost extent. Bankers made a most inexcusable use of the money of their customers, by laying it out in the purchase of stock. Every banker thus became what was, in the city phrase, called "a bull." This was, at best, a most dangerous speculation ;-the effect, in the mean time, was to raise the price of stocks. But, supposing trade should revive, they would be obliged to sell out at the price of the day, which would then probably be low enough. The chancellor of the exchequer had, some time since, come down to the house, and said that money was so plenty that they could lend out a million and a half on good security. Out of this million and a half he now understood the regent's canal company was to have 200,000l. What he wished

principally

principally to press upon the house was, that all this apparent temporary prosperity was not to be built upon. At present, the revenue was daily decreasing, and the price of the stocks rising. But supposing the best case, and that trade should revive, it would take a considerable time before the return of prosperous times would be evinced by the revenue. In the present circumstances of the country, unless the revenue could be raised, and greatly raised, the difficulties to be encountered by the country would be without any parallel. A bill had lately passed through the house to enable the commissioners of woods and forests to borrow 300,000l. Did any one think that they could obtain this without having recourse to the stocks? With respect to the sinking fund, after all the many discussions on the subject, it seemed that both sides of the house had talked themselves into a conviction that the country was in a flourishing way, if it was unnecessary to apply any part of the sinking fund to the ways and means of the year. It was, however, to be considered, that the rise of the stocks counteracted the effects of the sinking fund. The finance report talked of the revival of commerce; but it was impossible for commerce to revive under such a weight of taxes as oppressed it; and how much worse would it be if any alteration should take place in the value of money! It was his wish to have entered at some greater length into the state of trade, and of the resources of the country; but he must abandon that intention, having neither health nor spirits to support any further consideration of the subject, and being sensible that he had already trespassed to a great extent on the patience of the house. He then moved that the first resolution

be read, for the purpose of being withdrawn.

The resolution having been read from the chair

Mr. C. Grant jun. said, he wouldnot detain the house by entering at large into a statement of the finances of the country. He would merely confine himself to state the difference between the resolutions of the right honourable gentleman and those which he himself had moved. The resolutions of the right honourable gentleman might be divided into two parts: one relating to the state of the debt, the other to that of the income and revenue of the country. To the latter of these his resolutions did not extend; and that for reasons which he would by and by state to the house. On the first part, between himself and the right honourable gentleman there were two points on which they essentially differed. The right honourable gentleman stated the amount of the unfunded debt to be 66,490,000%. whereas he (Mr. G.) stated it at the utmost to be 64,648,0001. The other point was, that there was an increase of the debt this year to the amount of 1,814,0007.; in opposition to which he (Mr. G.) made it appear that there was a diminution of debt to the amount of 1,270,0007. It appeared to him that the right honourable gentleman had adopted a fallacious mode of estimating the exchequer bills. The right honourable gentleman assumed that there would be a deficiency in the ways and means for the present year-an assumption by no means authorized, as nearly the whole of the ways and means were already realized. From the votes of the year it appeared, that the whole amount of the supplies for the year was as he had stated, 64,646,000%. The total of the ways and means

was

was 64,461,000l. which very nearly balanced the supply. The error of the right honourable gentleman seemed to be, that he had computed the same sum twice. The honourable gentleman proceeded to show that the supplies of the year being only 22 millions, there were 26 millions of ways and means to meet them; and also that there was a reduction of 1,207,000/. in the debt, which appeared in the face of the operations of the year. He stated his intention to move the previous question on the motion of the right honourable gentleman, as the merit of the resolutions quoted on his side of the house was, that they were strictly resolutions of fact, and not of conjecture. If a great subject were opened by a series of resolutions, the mover was bound to bring the whole scope of them before the house, and he had to regret that the right honourable gentleman had not done so. He therefore objected to them, because they were resolutions of supposition, and proceeded on inadequate premises. With respect to the property tax, although it was true that it was an extraordinary receipt, there were also extraordinary charges upon it. The charge on the supplies for this year was 19,740,000l. With respect to the 4th resolution, it did not point out any error in his calculation; but admitting the data on which the right honourable gentleman went, he must think he had estimated the charge at too high an amount.

Mr. Tierney explained.

On the motion being put, the chancellor of the exchequer said he did not feel it necessary to trouble the house with any arguments on the subject after what had been adduced. But with respect to the payment of exchequer bills of five hundred thousand pounds sterling,

that may be out-standing at the end of the year, if the whole of the supplies were issued, it followed, of course, that the whole of the exchequer bills would be paid off. The bills to be paid off in the course of the present year were, as every body knew, those which were issued in the last year, and government had already been able to exchange or discharge such bills down to the month of October; so that it was much more likely that there would be a scarcity of exchequer bills for sale than a surplus of them.-This was altogether a proof of the wisdom of the system which had been recommended to parliament, but which the right honourable gentleman and his friends had persuaded parliament to reject. There was no question, that if the plan of continuing the income tax had been approved of, it would have led to a considerable discharge of the debt; and he was far from thinking that that proposition would, on the whole, have led to those injurious consequences which the right honourable gentleman had pointed out. Yet, in the course of last year, there was, notwithstanding, a very considerable diminution of the public debt; and he could say that it would to some extent, though not considerably, be diminished in the present year. If, however, by any unforeseen and unfortunate political circumstances, those sources of revenue which were open to improvement should fail, it would become the duty of parliament to take measures to improve our financial situation. But he hoped and trusted that a further improvement which was looked forward to would obviate the necessity to which he alluded. The right honourable gentleman (Mr. Tierney) had been so far from denying the improvement

that

that had been made in the finance of the country, that he had even been inclined to carry it to a more sanguine pitch than he (the chancellor of the exchequer) could have expected; for he not only talked of paying off the four and one-third per cents, but admitted that there had been an improvement of our public credit in the present year, though he had expressed his opinion that the circumstance had in it something unnatural and extraordinary. He had shown the rapid improve ment in the state of the unfunded debt of the country, and if the funded debt had not increased in the same proportion, he thought gentlemen could not be at a loss to account for some diminution. When the stockholder had been alarmed with vague ideas that he had no security for his property at home, it was not surprising that he might think it could be better protected abroad; but the proceedings in the present session had dispelled all such ideas-and there was very great merit due to parliament for abstaining from doing what it had not done. It had forborne from any measure calculated to shake the system of the corn law, which was founded on the wisest principles, and had been at tended with the most advantageous effects; and he would say that nothing would be so injurious to the public interests as the shifting of this sytem. As to the exchequer bills issued for the service of the present year, they had actually cost the public less than three per cent. The right honourable gentleman then alluded to the subject of the resumption of cash payments by the bank; and declared, that on this point his mind was made up; that nothing but some extraordinary shock, totally unexpected, in political affairs, could prevent this oc

currence at the time already stated. The next point he should notice was the diminution of the public debt, which was likely to be greater this year than last, as Providence had secured us from scarcity, by the prospect of an abundant harvest; and which prospect was equally favourable on the continent, where we might also confidently look to a more extensive commercial intercourse. It had been charged against this country, that we had joined in effecting the oppression of surrounding states; but such a charge had no foundation. On the contrary, it was our pride that we had mainly contributed to restore them to liberty. He firmly believed that this country, though apparently embarrassed, was yet capable of great exertions, though he trusted there would be no occasion to call them forth. But every thing would depend on the firmness and wisdom of parliament, of which he thought this session had shown an eminent and noble example.

Sir H. Parnell attributed our present embarrassments to the profuse extravagance with which the war had been carried on for the last twenty-four years. One of the reports had stated, that no less than nine millions had been expended in fortifications, such as Chatham and Plymouth lines. The right honourable gentleman had clearly intimated that he meant to propose vigorous measures, consisting of new taxation; but the only vigorous measures ought to be in adopting as severe a system of economy as could possibly be devised. As long, however, as the right honourable gentleman and his colleagues filled their present situations, no such hopes could be entertained. There was no one suggestion of economy in the whole of the report, on which

it could be hoped any amendment would take place. There would be no diminution whatever except 500,0001. in the army department; so that there could be no hope of any reduction in our permanent peace establishment, to bring it below seventeen millions; and those honest servants of the public, the ministers, instead of reducing our expenses to the level of our income, were raising our income to the level of our expenses. The honourable baronet then alluded to various items of the report; and concluded with expressing his hope, that the country would take such steps in time as should prevent that vigour with which the right honourable gentleman threatened it, and compel him to adopt in its stead a vigorous system of œconomy.

Mr. W. Smith had no hesitation in declaring that he thought the present situation of the country required a relaxation of taxation; and that it would be well purchased, either by a reduction of the interest of the national debt, or the application of some part of the sinking fund to the ways and means of the year. He could never think any measures wild or mischievous that might preclude the necessity of forcing upon us again the income or property tax. After some allusions to the state of the sinking fund, the honourable gentleman treated the financial system at present pursued as the greatest delusion, and observed that any man must be blind not to see that we should be worse off every year, unless the interest of the debt were reduced. It was in vain to dispute that there had been this year taken from the sum for the reduction of the national debt no less than 14,729,000l. This sum had been raised from the people, and would be to be raised by them. 1817.

It had not been paid off, and therefore it remained to be paid off. The honourable gentleman then alluded to the rising of the stocks, which he considered as an artifice, and argued that by raising the 3 per cents. from 65, there was now 25,000l. less stock purchased on the three or four buying days, than when they were at that price, making the redemption of the national debt 5,000,000l. a-year lower than it would be if they continued at that price. He agreed, that it was better to borrow money this year by exchequer bills than to raise it by taxes; but this was only putting off the evil day: and he repeated, that it was only by the application of the sinking fund to the purposes of the year, and by no other means, that the right honourable gentleman would be able to avoid his difficul ties. At all events, he sincerely hoped never to see the income tax revived.

Mr. Grenfell thought, under all circumstances, that the plan of the right honourable gentleman was most likely to be for the interest of the country, and it should have his support. He believed that the resources of the country would ultimately be found sufficient for its exigencies; and that, therefore, any additional burthens would be unne cessary. The people had a right to demand that, as long as we remained at peace, no attempt should be made to impose on them any additional taxes, and, in his opinion, any such attempt would be impracticable. After some remarks on the operation of the sinking fund, in the course of which he deprecated the plan of creating debt with one hand for the purpose of diminishing it with the other, he concluded with denying that he had ever expressed any disbelief of the capability of the

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